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AshNazg
Gondor
Dec 21 2014, 1:39am
Post #1 of 10
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Gandalf and Bilbo's last conversation is in the wrong order...
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Gandalf looks down at Bilbo who is stood right infront of him, as Gandalf says his final farewell words...
Bilbo responds "Thank goodness", shakes Gandalf's hand and walks a few feet away. -"Gandalf!"
We see Gandalf is now looking into a short distance - as Bilbo is standing further away.
"You needn't worry about the Ring. I lost it..."
Now we have a close up of Gandalf, but he's looking down again (as if Bilbo is right infront of him) "...you are only a small hobbit in this wide world afterall".
The two turn and part ways.
It's fairly clear that Bilbo's "Thank goodness" and hand-shake was originally supposed to be in reply to Gandalf's "wide world" statement (as it is in the book). It looks to me like this has been shuffled around in order to edit out Gandalf's original response to Bilbo losing the Ring.
It's a little thing, but it makes me wonder what Gandalf's original reaction was. Whether we'll see it in the EE or whether it was changed due to changes in the events of the battle.
Just thought I'd share.
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sycorax82
Rohan
Dec 21 2014, 3:44am
Post #2 of 10
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This is another example of the messiness of the trilogy...
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Way too many changes have been made to the movies, post-shooting. I wish they had known it was going to be 3 movies from the get-go, and known what they were doing with Azog/Bolg, Dol Guldur, Dain, Beorn, Dwarves vs Smaug etc.
Because so much was changed during production and post, the movies are so messy it's unreal. And we thought the whole Arwen thing was enough of a debacle.
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea
Dec 21 2014, 3:48am
Post #3 of 10
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...is said from a distance away from Bilbo. I paid attention last time I watched. I know they added a line from Bilbo about losing the Ring. But I still don't think the order of the lines was going to be exactly from the book.
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
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AshNazg
Gondor
Dec 21 2014, 9:12am
Post #4 of 10
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As he says the last line "...in a wide world afterall" he is clearly looking down and his eyes even dart left and right, shifting focus on Bilbo's eyes - something you can only do if the person is right infront of you. - There's no doubt this line was shot with Bilbo close and edited in when he's further away.
The line also doesn't actually have any relevence when you think about it. If I had editing software I could put it in the right order to show you what I mean. Maybe after Xmas.
(This post was edited by AshNazg on Dec 21 2014, 9:13am)
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea
Dec 21 2014, 5:14pm
Post #5 of 10
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Well, I'm not going to argue...
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...but, as I said, I took special notice of that shot on my last viewing. You can notice that Bilbo is no longer in frame, as he is earlier in the scene.
And you needn't go through the trouble of editing the scene differently to educate me.  I'm an editor by profession.
As for the relevance of the line, it works very well. It doesn't have the same meaning as in the book, sure. But in this case, it's meant to suggest that Gandalf knows Bilbo is lying to him - without directly calling him out on it. It rightfully leaves Bilbo with a somewhat puzzled expression on his face, as he's not sure what to make of Gandalf's statement.
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Dec 21 2014, 5:16pm)
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DigificWriter
Lorien
Dec 21 2014, 7:59pm
Post #6 of 10
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Just because it's different doesn't mean it's 'out of order'
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Just because the lines of dialogue appear in a different order in the book than they do in the film doesn't automatically mean they're out-of-order in said film, and, in fact, I would find it rather unlikely that they would be.
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AshNazg
Gondor
Dec 21 2014, 8:06pm
Post #7 of 10
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I didn't mean out of order from the book...
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As I said in my post it has clearly been shuffled around because Gandalf's line of sight goes from distant to close up, which reveals the original order of the shots. Look for yourself, next time. It's not a subtle error at all.
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AshNazg
Gondor
Dec 21 2014, 8:11pm
Post #8 of 10
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He's not in frame when previously stood close either...
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When Bilbo is stood further away Gandalf's head is tilted up and his line of sight is fixed in a distance.
When Bilbo is closer Gandalf's head is tilted down and his eyes flick left and right. - I'm watching the scene back right now.  I'm not trying to argue, that's just how the scene plays out.
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea
Dec 21 2014, 8:13pm
Post #9 of 10
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Nothing much more to be said, I guess. 
Anything more from me would probably come off as rude, and I would like to avoid that.
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Dec 21 2014, 8:14pm)
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[STARS}TyranT
The Shire
Jan 6 2015, 11:04pm
Post #10 of 10
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Sorry to necro post this but....
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A recent interview with Philippa and PJ explain why there is a noticible editing issue in this scene:
And as soon as you know that scene is a farewell, you spend a page of them just saying goodbye to each other in various ways, and they walk off. You’ve got a whole scene where nothing actually happens. So it was a very good thing; it’s a farewell, but then suddenly the ring comes into it. So we had to manufacture something with ADR [automated dialogue replacement] and little cut-aways and things, and put this little twist in there. What I love about it is ultimately Bilbo lies to Gandalf, which is probably the first time that ever happens. He looks him in the eye and he lies, and that was never in the original scene that we shot, but suddenly the scene is going somewhere at the end, which was a great idea.
Taken from this interview here :)
http://herocomplex.latimes.com/movies/the-hobbit-peter-jackson-philippa-boyens-on-five-armies-ending/#/0
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