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Eurolock
Bree
Dec 20 2014, 4:52am
Post #1 of 21
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Questions about rams, dwalin and water....
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Answers welcomed....
1. Where did the rams that Thorin and co found in the middle of the battle field come from?
2. What happened to Dwalin during Ravenhill scene...he just seemed to disappear from the movie?
3. When Bard comes to the front gate of Erebor to Barter he crosses a stone bridge that seems to span a chasm (or did I imagine this?). Later, after the dwarves have destroyed the bridge, the chasm is full of water. Where did all the water come from?
Suggestions?
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deskp
Lorien
Dec 20 2014, 5:05am
Post #2 of 21
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1 They came with Dain from the iron hills.
2 dunno, out somewhere figthing goblins?
3 When they smash the stuff the debris breaks the ice = water
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Silverlode
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Dec 20 2014, 5:14am
Post #3 of 21
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saves Bilbo from that one orc that was charging him, and then I assume the tide of battle swept him off to another area, and Bilbo gets knocked out and doesn't know where anyone is when he wakes up until he finds Thorin. The movie doesn't attempt to follow everyone at all times - it focuses on the main characters and the others come in and out as their paths cross. Of course, in the book, Bilbo misses most of the battle entirely and only gets filled in briefly after, so in a weird way there's still a bit of that effect left.
Of course, EE, etc.... 
Silverlode
Want a LOTR Anniversary footer of your own? Get one here!
"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dûm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."
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MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea
Dec 20 2014, 5:46am
Post #4 of 21
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i hope we see more rams in the EE because in the trailer
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we saw lots of dwarves mounted on the rams and charging.
The flames of war are upon you..
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Eurolock
Bree
Dec 20 2014, 5:49am
Post #5 of 21
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But the rams weren't seen before this...i think
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Obviously the rams were seen in the tv spots...but in the movie they just seem to appear out of nowhere.
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MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea
Dec 20 2014, 5:51am
Post #6 of 21
(638 views)
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i have no idea why PJ cut out the ramming seen in the trailer !
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perhaps to avoid a R-rating? 
The flames of war are upon you..
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Eurolock
Bree
Dec 20 2014, 5:55am
Post #7 of 21
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Still seems odd that Dwalin doesn't return to find Thorin...
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He was the only 'hero' on Ravenhill that the movie just forgot about. Everyone else was completely accounted for.
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Silverlode
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Dec 20 2014, 6:05am
Post #8 of 21
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after the initial cat-and-mouse, the story narrows focus to the two villains Azog and Bolg and those who fight them, plus Bilbo. 4 dwarves went up Ravenhill. 3 of them died at the hands of Azog and Bolg. Dwalin didn't fight either of them, so he doesn't get special focus. We don't know how the other 9 left behind fared in the rest of the battle either, except that they, like Dwalin, survived. Dwalin is there with the rest of the dwarves when they gather around Thorin's body.
Silverlode
Want a LOTR Anniversary footer of your own? Get one here!
"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dûm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."
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Elskidor
Rohan
Dec 20 2014, 6:06am
Post #9 of 21
(635 views)
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I agree with Dwalin. It was confusing and I'm sure this is explained on the EE but it was just weird on the theatrical.
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Bofur01
Lorien
Dec 20 2014, 10:00am
Post #10 of 21
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They were in Dain's army... if you look closely in the wide shots...
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You can see about four of his captains (I guess) riding rams.
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mirkwoodwanderer
Lorien
Dec 20 2014, 12:58pm
Post #11 of 21
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they come from the mountains
They were behind the hills.. they were there, but we did not see them yet. just like we did not see Dain before he arrived
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BalrogTrainer
Rivendell
Dec 20 2014, 1:53pm
Post #12 of 21
(508 views)
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... from the film from that first trailer was Balin and a few of the other Dwarves riding in a cart and pursued by Wargs.
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Hobbity Hobbit
Lorien
Dec 20 2014, 2:01pm
Post #13 of 21
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In the trailer it was being used by the Ironhill army, also I'm not sure what happened, that is probably left out for the EE. It also seems that the company in battle is going to be in the EE, there's a ton of concept art for them in battle in the Chronicles book. Yeah, like others said before, the statue probably broke through the ice, and there was water at the bottom. I hope we get to see a lot more in the EE the concepts looked great, the Ironhill Army, and the Elves' army also had a few moments in the trailer that we never saw.
"As the snowflakes cover my fallen brothers,
I will say this last goodbye."-from "The Last Goodbye"
"Why does it hurt so much?"
"Because it was real."
(PLEASE DON'T HURT ME)
"If more of us valued food and cheer and song above gold, the world would be a merrier place."-BotFA/The Hobbit
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Elanor of Rohan
Lorien
Dec 20 2014, 2:21pm
Post #14 of 21
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Of course many parts, the emotional ones, were cut to focus on the battle and battle-related events.
We seem to lose track of Dwalin on Ravenhill, but also Fili is completely forgotten after his death. They recover his body as well, because we see 3 biers in the funeral scene photo.
Is it possible that Dwalin goes back to Fili, since both Kili and Thorin are fighting? Or maybe after Kili's death?
Fili would really deserve it.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Dec 20 2014, 2:50pm
Post #15 of 21
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I thought the chasm thing was odd too.
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It seemed to be too deep to fill up with water.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Dec 20 2014, 2:58pm
Post #16 of 21
(486 views)
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Ah - having checked some shots from the trailers
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It was the look of the ice that I must have misinterpreted as a far deeper and empty chasm. That makes more sense now.
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MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea
Dec 20 2014, 6:32pm
Post #18 of 21
(426 views)
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yes that looked awesome i was very unhappy that wasn't included
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But the ram charge was my personal highlight of the first trailer.
The flames of war are upon you..
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fiveforchaos
The Shire
Dec 20 2014, 8:26pm
Post #19 of 21
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Thorin and Kili both had someone mourning over their bodies during the battle, it'd be nice to think that Fili had someone too. I've gotten the impression that Dwalin's sort of the Bobby Singer to Thorin's John Winchester when it comes to his relationship with Fili and Kili, so I can imagine how torn up he'd be over Fili's death.
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Eleniel
Tol Eressea
Dec 20 2014, 9:45pm
Post #20 of 21
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On the subject of the missing ram-drawn chariot, the latest Weta Chronicles tells us:
"We had a storytelling problem in that Thorin and his nephews had to get up to Ravenhill for their final confrontation with Azog and Bolg, so the rams offered a solution because the heroes could commandeer a chariot with four rams and drive it as far as the terrain and damage would permit. Then they could cut the animals free and ride them bareback up the rocky mountainside..."
"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort
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Cirashala
Valinor
Dec 20 2014, 11:17pm
Post #21 of 21
(415 views)
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He couldn't even bear to watch as Fili was executed 
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