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Danielos
Rohan
Dec 19 2014, 9:48pm
Post #1 of 13
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Smaug is dead. Sauron doesn´t care?
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When the orch army leaves Dol Guldur Smaug is still alive. So I suppose the army is going to Erebor not just for the gold and the strategic position but to try to get Smaug in Sauron´s camp. Smaug dies, and yet Azog and the army just keep on with no mention of Smaug at all! This is what happens when you change things around in a novel. you have to think carefully so you don´t create loose ends and absurd plot holes!
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nymmerod
The Shire
Dec 19 2014, 9:51pm
Post #2 of 13
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that's why Gandalf makes that comment about the enemy wanting the mountain as a strategic location as well.
http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=96226
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MasterOrc
Rivendell
Dec 19 2014, 10:21pm
Post #3 of 13
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word of Smaug's death had reached AZOG while marching on Erebor. I'd speculate after BOLG reported mentioning his interactions with the Elves, that AZOG then ordered BOLG to ride north to retrieve the army from Gundabad knowing it would be needed to take the mountain minus Smaug.
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kiwifan
Rohan
Dec 19 2014, 11:18pm
Post #4 of 13
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Good point!
'Goodness gracious, you really are a messie!' 'Oh no, I'm not, these are all just mathoms...'
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MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea
Dec 20 2014, 2:36am
Post #5 of 13
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i'm not sure your point is valid on this one
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ok so...sauron sends out all his orcs to erebor and smaug dies….so sauron should just send a rider out to azog to tell him to turn around and march back to dol-guldur??? What would that accomplish? At this point sauron has come out of the closet, gandalf knows he's hiding there so eventually Elrond/Thranduil would march to dol-guldur with a army and kill all his orcs. Sauron wasn't relying solely on smaug winning the war for him, he had thousands of orcs, trolls, bats ect…
The flames of war are upon you..
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DigificWriter
Lorien
Dec 20 2014, 2:45am
Post #6 of 13
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There was never really any overt connection...
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... established between Sauron/The Necromancer and Smaug, in spite of Gandalf - correctly - believing that Sauron's attention was focused on the Lonely Mountain and Erebor, so whether or not Smaug was alive or dead really wouldn't have had any bearing on whether or not Azog and Bolg and their armies marched on the mountain.
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MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea
Dec 20 2014, 5:44am
Post #7 of 13
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right, it had more to do with Thorin reaching the lonely mountain.
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The flames of war are upon you..
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tsmith675
Gondor
Dec 20 2014, 6:58am
Post #8 of 13
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Where Thrain tells Gandalf that Sauron and Smaug are in league.
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DigificWriter
Lorien
Dec 20 2014, 7:04am
Post #9 of 13
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Thrain may claim that Sauron and Smaug are in league with one another....
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... but there's no actual evidence of this, and even if Thrain was correct, there's still no reason why Smaug's death would have any effect on Azog and Bolg's activities.
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Danielos
Rohan
Dec 20 2014, 7:25am
Post #10 of 13
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Yes. But what was the original plan then? Would Azog enter the mountain and try to negotiate with Smaug?
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sharku
Rivendell
Dec 20 2014, 9:48am
Post #11 of 13
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Yes. But what was the original plan then? Would Azog enter the mountain and try to negotiate with Smaug? Similar to the valarauko in Moria, or Shelob, it is fun to speculate on how Sauron may have tried to influence these other malevolent beasties to his sway so that they might act more concertedly than simply independently minded spawn of Morgoth.
(This post was edited by sharku on Dec 20 2014, 9:52am)
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Dec 20 2014, 3:24pm
Post #12 of 13
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Smaug would have been a devastating weapon as part of that army. Certainly it's hard to imagine he wouldn't have altered the result of the BOFA. However, even without him Azog stood a solid chance. Once the army was revealed and Sauron's hand has been tipped, surely there would be no advantage to turning around and heading back to DG!
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Dec 20 2014, 5:05pm
Post #13 of 13
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It is not to Sauron's benefit to allow the Dwarves to reclaim the Mountain. Erebor holds an important strategic position in the North and once friendships between Elves and Dwarves and Men are renewed, Sauron's hopes for immediate invasion are dashed.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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