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squire
Half-elven
Dec 21 2014, 3:54pm
Post #26 of 33
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I missed the Frodo reference. But it ties in with the others: all the uses of 'fey' in The Lord of the Rings occur in the part of the story (end of Book IV, and most of Book V) where the quest seems most hopeless - where the participants have every reason to expect death, not victory, and yet they continue on with their duty.
The difference we've caught here is one of a single letter in spelling that leads to two different words, and two battling etymologies, Germanic vs. Romance. A distinction plain to Tolkien, certainly, and probably dear to his heart:
Fey, with an e, is an adjective. It comes from the Old English word fæge related to 'fated', more specifically 'doomed' - thus, fey = fated to die.
Fay, with an a, is a noun. It shares something of the same sense but with a different root and different twist: the Latin Fata, the Fates, became fata the goddess of fate, and from there through Old French to Fae, Fee, or Fay, ultimately Faerie or as we have it now, fairy.
Tolkien doesn't use fay in LotR as far as I can tell, for a number of reasons I can think of. Start with its association with the debased fairy-tale tradition of the 19th century that he was trying to get away from with his own mythology, and end with (why not) his oft-expressed preference for the Germanic roots of English against the Romance/French roots.
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd & 4th TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion and NOW the 1st BotR Discussion too! and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
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Plurmo
Rohan
Dec 21 2014, 10:29pm
Post #27 of 33
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if there would be a distinction of sex in the Wraith World. If I think about the Valar, it seems that there wouldn't, but I'm not sure if that would be the case with Man. Even then, I wonder if that distinction would have had any significance to a wraith. Right now I cannot remember of any clear situation of sex distinction involving wraiths. Certainly that would put to rest any idea of Éowyn having an indistinguishable Wraith World presence.
Supposing she had, whatever the Nazgul would have seen of her wouldn't be bright as an elf-lord, but, pale, downcast as a normal wraith. The inverse mirror image of a half-elf, so to speak (no wonder she only found healing in the arms of Elrond's distant nephew and a true numenórean.)
There are many circumstantial connections I see between Éowyn's descriptions and wight, wraith motifs. "Cold be hand and heart and bone" and Éowyn's fair coldness, things like that. One instance that certainly derives from my lack of language proficiency is my perceiving the words of Aragorn, that in him, Éowyn loved "a shadow and a thought" as having ring-wearing undertones. If the thought part is the strength in her desiring greatness, and the shadow part her blurred perception of real world beings, even if in a metaphorical sense, then I could think of her as wearing half a Ring of Power (as I sad, the argument is in half.)
As Rembrethil reminded, it is all just a story. But it was Tolkien's fault, having opened so many juicy paths for speculative madness.
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HeWhoArisesinMight
Rivendell
Dec 22 2014, 2:42am
Post #28 of 33
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Feanor is described as 'fey' in Silmarillion
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And at this point, he had gone "mad..." before being mortally wounded by Balrogs.
I know it's a bit off topic LOL
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HeWhoArisesinMight
Rivendell
Dec 22 2014, 2:59am
Post #29 of 33
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Is used to describe Feanor before he dies in the first battle of Beleriand. Feanor is described as "fey" because he forebodes his death.... and also acts in madness.
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Bracegirdle
Valinor
Dec 22 2014, 2:33pm
Post #30 of 33
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If your thinking of the Nazgul?
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Right now I cannot remember of any clear situation of sex distinction involving wraiths.
"Nine he gave to Mortal Men, proud and great, and so ensnared them. Long ago they fell under the domination of the One, and they became Ringwraiths, shadows under his great Shadow, his most terrible servants."
—FotR, "The Shadow of the Past"
“Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens.”
But, sneaking off in daylight takes much more cunning.
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Rembrethil
Tol Eressea
Dec 22 2014, 3:39pm
Post #31 of 33
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Thanks!
I think Tolkien had a definite use in mind, as a master of language, but maybe the use was non-literal? Words carry emotion too, (Inflammatory news-press anyone?) so maybe it was an attempt to paint an emotional scene?
Call me Rem, and remember, not all who ramble are lost...Uh...where was I?
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Rembrethil
Tol Eressea
Dec 22 2014, 3:45pm
Post #32 of 33
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I like this kind of specualtion
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Great thoughts, but as you say, It's frustrating. We musn't look for concrete answers, but as CuriosG said elsewhere:
If you dare to be literal, odds are, somewhere you will find an answer written down! (paraphrased)
He says they are not to be taken literally or allegorically, but then writes down arcane facts for us. Tricksy! (Borrowed from CG again)
Call me Rem, and remember, not all who ramble are lost...Uh...where was I?
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Rembrethil
Tol Eressea
Dec 22 2014, 3:46pm
Post #33 of 33
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Reading that part was the first time I thought about the word 'fey' so it has been my benchmark for its use, I think. Hopefully this makes my words more understandable!
Call me Rem, and remember, not all who ramble are lost...Uh...where was I?
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