The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room: Meeting the natives

A. Movie-firsters: Did you remember the words about breathing loud from the movie when you read the book? n/a

B. The rope is described as looking slender, silver-grey, glimmering, while the elves themselves are clad in shadowy-grey, not to be seen among the tree stems. How characteristic are these adjectives as descriptions of Elves and things elvish? It adds to their mystery, that they can fade into the mists. (Curiously, when I dream of elves, I often cannot see them directly, but only as blurred gray glimpses from the corner of my eye. It might be some archetypal thing, about them being a Hidden People.)

C. Apart from the immediate comedy, why does Tolkien have Sam trying not to breathe loudly? Sam pays attention to everything, even little details like that. And I notice that once again Sam follows Frodo where he himself has not been invited! Good for him!

D. Wouldn�t it be more polite of the elves to greet the hobbits in the Common Tongue?
Could it be possible that Haldir�s brothers, who know little of the Common Tongue,
would feel a bit awkward about this lack of �cultural competence� or do you suppose that
these Elves, or elves in general rise completely above such feelings, only thinking it
natural that they shouldn�t know any language besides the elvish?

Oh boy, now there you strike a nerve! (And talk about Tolkien's applicability--I can immediately relate from a cultural standpoint, and he probably never even heard of my culture!)

Whose language gets acknowledged or slighted signals major power plays. Or, as philologists like to say, "A dialect is a language without an army." When people make the choice not to learn a language that would make their lives more convenient if they did know it, they make a statement declaring that the language belongs to their inferiors and is not worth learning. Border-guards ought to know the Common tongue, and the fact that only one knows it, and that only haltingly, says volumes--especially when you consider that immortal elves have all the time in the world to learn anything they please. (I could speak volumes about personal experience, but that would sidetrack the discussion in an unfortunate direction.)

As for rudeness, a certain Miss Manners column comes to mind. A "gentle reader" wrote in complaining of strangers who speak non-English in American public places. Miss Manners inquired as to why the reader felt offended at these strangers foiling her attempts to eavesdrop. So no, speaking elvish among themselves was not rude in itself. But not bothering to learn the language common outside their borders, when their job description included interacting at need with that outside world, does qualify as rude.

I see much of this chapter as Tolkien balancing his previously radiant portrayal of elves with a more realistic perspective. They, too, are fallible creatures, tempted by pride and prejudice. Even Aragorn, raised by elves and aspiring to marry one, finally gets ticked off at Legolas resisting solidarity with Gimli in wearing a blindfold.

E. Haldir belongs to the elves of the land going about to gather news or watch the movements of the enemy. What sort of social status do you imagine that these elves have in the centre of the realm of Lothl�rien, since it is such a secluded culture? Do you believe there�s a difference to the pride they feel about their tasks compared to the border guards of say, Gondor?

I expect that the secluded culture would value their border-guards even more, toasting them as the "Thin Grey Line" that keeps them all safe. That doesn't necessarily mean that they would hesitate to cut their funding, nor that they would invite them to dinner parties, but they would, in theory, be respected.

The Elves tell them that they have had messengers from Elrond and are willing to help them, as Elrond asked, especially since they travel with an Elf. However they object to Gimli, a dwarf, being allowed to pass through their land. After a quick chat with Legolas they decide to allow Gimli coming on the condition that he will be walking blindfold through Lothl�rien. They decide that the hobbits are staying with the Elves while the others must sleep in the tree next to this.

F. Do you find it curious that the Elves don�t trust Gimli when he is travelling in the company of Legolas and Aragorn, whom they trust fully?

At the risk of irony, I find it all too "human". Prejudice has nothing to do with logic. It is a cultural neurosis.

Merry & Pippin clambers up on the flet out of breath and rather scared and bringing their blankets. They are offered supper, which they accept gladly, before they wrap themselves in blankets and fur-cloaks provided by the Elves. The flet has no rail or wall and only Sam finds it easy to fall asleep. Pippin goes on talking for a while and Sam comments drily,
�Once I do get to sleep, I shall go on sleeping, whether I roll off or no. The less said, the sooner I�ll drop off, if you take my meaning�.

G. Why is Sam always finding it easier than the other hobbits to fall asleep? What do you think of the exchange between Sam & Pippin? Why is Sam and not Merry or Frodo the one who tells Pippin to keep his mouth shut? I feel delighted to see how far Sam has come since this very junior member of the company could boss him around and he'd jump up and say, "Yes sir!" Sam puts Pippin in his place because we need to see him do that. Pippin starts out a spoiled rich kid, who grows up into someone who earns the right to respect. Sam starts out a brow-beaten servant (not beaten down by his employers, but by his father who wanted to keep him in his place) who grows into a leader. Lorien is where everything starts to shift. All things have their flip side--Lorien preserves all within its borders from change, yet none can enter from outside without becoming changed by passing through. As for falling asleep, I agree with the earlier assessment that Sam hauls more weight and works harder.

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