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cartermoulton
Bree
Nov 1 2014, 2:24am
Post #1 of 22
(1317 views)
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DOS EE: I don't understand
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hi all, just watched the EE. Thought the Beorn stuff was absolutely wonderful; Thrain was a plus (shows the ring, which could be important)...There are some weird cutting issues (1:52-1:53 there's a strange cut between Gandalf in Dol Guldor and the company at the foot of the mountain that doesn't quite flow)...was hoping new Master scenes would flesh out the character and culture of Laketown, but unfortunately all of the scenes have Bard tunnel-vision.
I have two continuity questions:
1. As the company approaches the Lonely Mountain, why does Thorin tell Bilbo, "Relax Master Baggins, we have good food and we're making good time" and then, only seconds later, rush the company and say "we don't have time to wait for Gandalf...."
2. This has been addressed I believe, but how does Bilbo hear "Sting" after he takes off the ring?
"the road goes ever on and on..."
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Nov 1 2014, 10:38am
Post #2 of 22
(594 views)
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Not sure I know what you mean by hearing Sting?
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But on the first I would argue for a practical answer and a thematic one.
Firstly, there is a practical difference between making good time and being able to stop and wait for an indefinite amount of time (after all it's not as if they could see Gandalf just rounding the corner!) I think also there is a suggestion of Thorin's growing pride at work, especially with his kingdom in sight. The idea that he should sit and wait for someone wiser or more effective as a leader to turn up would not be an attractive thought for Thorin at all!
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BlackFox
Half-elven
Nov 1 2014, 11:29am
Post #3 of 22
(582 views)
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... how can Bilbo hear the spider cry out "It stings! Stings!" when he has already removed the Ring by the time this happens.
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BlackCountry
Rivendell
Nov 1 2014, 11:32am
Post #4 of 22
(586 views)
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I like to think that some of the Ring's power may linger after taking it off hence the possibility that he heard what the Spider said. Hopefully PJ will address this in the EE commentary.
I do not want what it is not mine.... I only want what comes from within....
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BlackFox
Half-elven
Nov 1 2014, 11:34am
Post #5 of 22
(538 views)
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I prefer this explanation as well. //
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Old Pilgrim
Rivendell
Nov 1 2014, 11:50am
Post #6 of 22
(532 views)
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I was always wondering about this scene, because it looked odd to me. Not just he heard the spiders talking after he took off his ring, but he also couldn't kill them while wearing the ring. There was some strange metal sound when he strike with the Sting but nothing happened to the spiders so I hope to learn more in commentaries.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Nov 1 2014, 11:58am
Post #7 of 22
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Oh I see. This is exactly what happens in the book.
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Presumably the ring effectively teaches the language rather than acts as a translator.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Nov 1 2014, 12:27pm
Post #8 of 22
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I didn't interpret that as being to do with the ring.
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I think Bilbo just makes the mistake of striking the spider on its hard upper carapace - hence the noise. All the other spiders he or anyone else kills are struck in the face or softer underbelly.
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BlackFox
Half-elven
Nov 1 2014, 12:51pm
Post #9 of 22
(486 views)
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Where exactly is this topic addressed?
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Nov 1 2014, 12:54pm
Post #10 of 22
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The sequence in the book is just the same as in the film.
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Bilbo does not hear any speech from the spiders, he puts on his ring, he hears spiders talking, he takes off his ring and still hears them talking.
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BlackFox
Half-elven
Nov 1 2014, 1:03pm
Post #11 of 22
(476 views)
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But it isn't directly stated that it was the Ring that gave Bilbo the ability to hear and understand the spiders in the book, or is it?
(This post was edited by BlackFox on Nov 1 2014, 1:09pm)
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Nov 1 2014, 1:09pm
Post #12 of 22
(471 views)
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But Tolkien discusses that the ring has such effects in ROTK during Sam's possession of it.
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BlackFox
Half-elven
Nov 1 2014, 1:11pm
Post #13 of 22
(457 views)
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That's what is was looking for.
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Nov 1 2014, 1:31pm
Post #16 of 22
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I would have loved talking wargs
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If Bilbo had put on the Ring during the Frying Pan episode, and heard the wargs talking (perhaps about fifteen birds) it would have helped emphasise this power and left a level of ambiguity as to whether Smaug was talking or the Ring was translating.
I think it would have made the scene more enigmatic and cool.
(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Nov 1 2014, 1:32pm)
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Nov 1 2014, 1:46pm
Post #17 of 22
(442 views)
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Do the dwarves know about the ring in the films so far?
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It occurs to me that I don't think they do - that might be deliberate if I'm not misremembering.
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BlackFox
Half-elven
Nov 1 2014, 1:48pm
Post #18 of 22
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I haven't gotten the impression that they'd know either.
(This post was edited by BlackFox on Nov 1 2014, 1:57pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Nov 1 2014, 2:51pm
Post #19 of 22
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Oh I see. This is exactly what happens in the book. Presumably the ring effectively teaches the language rather than acts as a translator.
In the book, the giant spiders seem to be able to speak in common. There is no indication that Bilbo's ring has anything to do with his comprehension of the spiders.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Nov 1 2014, 3:38pm
Post #20 of 22
(386 views)
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No reason to interpret that way over the other.
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My point, as stated, was that the sequence of events was the same.
There is no particular reason that I can see to go one way or the other on the explanation for that sequence - both are perfectly valid and supportable as far as I can see.
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Faleel
Rohan
Nov 1 2014, 3:42pm
Post #21 of 22
(397 views)
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(1:52-1:53 there's a strange cut between Gandalf in Dol Guldor and the company at the foot of the mountain that doesn't quite flow)..
Probably because the original cut was different.
Original cut:
Healing of Thrain > Company on the Doorstep > Gandalf and Thrain talking about his ring.
EE cut:
Healing of Thrain > Gandalf and Thrain talking about his ring > On The Doorstep.
Video:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9elc4TmZxanRjd0E/view?usp=sharing
(This post was edited by Faleel on Nov 1 2014, 3:44pm)
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Timdalf
Rivendell
Nov 1 2014, 5:19pm
Post #22 of 22
(366 views)
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9elc4TmZxanRjd0E/view
Who needs dialogue when you have Shore's incredible score!! Back to silent films, everybody!!!!
Well, almost...
Wouldn't want to loose the vocal impact of Freeman, McKellen, McCoy or Armitage, etc....
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