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Girdle of Melian
Lorien
Oct 29 2014, 11:21am
Post #1 of 7
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Why Just Sauron - Won't Saruman Be Enough?
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Many are familiar with the appendices that mentioned that Lorien was assailed 3 times yet it all failed, and Tolkien accredited the power (Galadriel) was far too great for any to overcome, unless Sauron came there himself (without the Ring I am not sure how successful he would be, or if it will make a difference or not). Hence, since Tolkien was quite specific that Galadriel will be the power to overcome there, aside from the army of Elves (and Celeborn; he is not push over after all). I would only imagine that Galadriel will use whatever she learned from the Valar in hear early days and from Melian to give her army a tactical advance (including the use of her mirror, as sometimes she can command what she wants to see). This could involve controlling the elements (water, wind (mist), maybe even fire or various enchantments, etc. Hence, Sauron will be needed to counter such enchants and overpower Galadriel. However, couldn't have Saruman - since he has turned evil and is no longer under any restrictions to resist Sauron (since he joined him now), over power Galadriel when it comes to lore, etc. even if he did not possess the one ring? Restricted or not, he is still an Istari, after all. Of course, Sarumans priorities (or orders were different), but I'm just curious.
I understand that some may say that the armies that attacked it were too small so eventually Lorien could be overrun regardless of what Tolkien stated otherwise, unless Tolkien meant, unless Sauron, or Saruman (or Gandalf or anyone who came there with the One Ring..lol).
Thank you!
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Oct 29 2014, 6:31pm
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Saruman failed to overcome Helm's Deep.
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It was defended only by Men (and one Elf and one Dwarf). Gandalf's main contribution was rounding up more Men. So, whatever abilities Saruman had, they were inadequate to that task and would certainly have been inadequate to take on Galadriel. Among her other strengths, Galadriel was able to use her Ring to preserve and protect her realm.
(This post was edited by Elizabeth on Oct 29 2014, 6:37pm)
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Girdle of Melian
Lorien
Oct 30 2014, 9:13am
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I guess I may have confused it with the movie....as in the movie Saruman used some enchantments to bring down the mountain, so I thought it would be well within his power to do something that Luthien did to Helm's Deep, and I don't even remember if he was actually there (he wasn't as I presumed he was in Isengard when the Ents attacked).
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Matthias132
The Shire
Nov 4 2014, 11:05pm
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If Saruman could not stop the ents, or take helms deep, then there is no way he would have been able to take the wood of Lothlorien. The place was full of twists, turns, and very easy to hold guerilla warfare. Even if his sorcery was powerful, it would not have matched Galadriel's ring, knowledge, or power in general.
Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger.Courage is found in unlikely places - J.R.R. Tolkien (Gildor)
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Girdle of Melian
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 2:11pm
Post #5 of 7
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Thanks for response, Matthias132...
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A little confused...Saruman was the head of Istari and the White Council....obviously Galadriel though it was wise than Istari lead the White Council.
Also, I thought the 3 Elven Rings were not used for warfare, could Galadriel really have used to to ward of evil and how? I mean, during the attack, the borders of the forest were harmed quite badly, so I'm not sure what Galadriel could have done with the Ring of Nenya...she knows lore so she can raise the river, etc., but Saruman and Gandalf would know such lores as well, having been part of the creation of the universe...and Gandalf used his full powers to defeat the Balrog with no restrictions...why can't Saruman...I guess only Tolkien knows..lol
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Nov 6 2014, 10:41pm
Post #6 of 7
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The balrog was, perhaps, a legiimate target...
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because he was apparently a lone agent, and not affiliated directly with Sauron and part of the war effort.
in any case, by the time the attack on Lorien was launched, Saruman had been "defrocked" and his power much diminished.
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