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Subaruman
Bree
Oct 23 2014, 2:08pm
Post #1 of 24
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Possible Prologue Spoiler in DOS EE Appendices?
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I'm not sure of the likelihood, but in Appendix 9 Chapter 11 (A Chance Meeting), they discuss the decision and impacts of splitting the 2 movies into 3. At around the 0:35 mark they show the title sequences to all 3 films. For AUJ they show the smoke ring with the film title, for DOS they show the mountains with the film title, and for BOFA they show the people of Laketown walking along the mountain tops with Laketown burning in the background with the film title.
It could just be that they used a sample shot from BOFA as a generic reference to use, but I suppose it's possible that they used the actual title sequence.
If that's the case then it implies that BOFA will launch directly into the destruction of Laketown as the prologue. It would be different from all the other films if that was the case, but then again, the cliff hanger ending of DOS was different from any of the other films as well.
Thoughts?
"Here is a book very unsuitable for dramatic or semi-dramatic representation. If that is attempted, it needs more space, a lot of space."
- J.R.R. Tolkien, 1956
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Oct 23 2014, 2:22pm
Post #2 of 24
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I've said before, I'm pretty sure it has been confirmed...
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I'm pretty certain there's an interview out there where they literally say the prologue is going to be the Smaug attack. I also remember when the interview came out no-one seemed to see it as a big deal.  So I'm starting to think maybe I was the only one who read it.
(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Oct 23 2014, 2:23pm)
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Shagrat
Gondor
Oct 23 2014, 2:25pm
Post #4 of 24
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This means Smaug's attack on Lake-town can't really be any longer than 7-8 minutes, which will give real ammunition to those who question why it couldn't have just formed the climax of DoS. Furthermore, a Middle-earth film just isn't quite the same without an introductory flashback, and I think we can all agree that the meeting of the Dwarf Lords at Ered Luin would have been a great way to introduce Dain (otherwise I can't see him getting interact with Thorin at any point) and set-up some of the key elements of the film - the Arkenstone and the intervention of the Dwarves of the Iron Hills.
(This post was edited by Shagrat on Oct 23 2014, 2:28pm)
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Oct 23 2014, 2:29pm
Post #6 of 24
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Unless I'm thinking of a different interview.
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The quote was that "we can get straight into the action", which could be interpreted as no prologue but I would tend to think simply means all the travelling and character introductions are already dealt with.
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The Grey Pilgrim
Lorien
Oct 23 2014, 2:31pm
Post #7 of 24
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Here is the image screencapped from the appendices!
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Best quality I could get it.
think this could really be our title screen?
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Azaghâl
Lorien
Oct 23 2014, 2:35pm
Post #9 of 24
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I really hope it is not.
Smaug as a prologue would just feel wrong.
*Baruk khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!*
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micha84
Rivendell
Oct 23 2014, 2:44pm
Post #10 of 24
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Well if the movie starts right away with Smaug destroying Laketown, that doesn't mean that that is the film's prologue. It would mean that there is no prologue! Which would be shame... because one could think of several great flashback scenes for it. Something about the dwarves, something from Beorn's past, or even something about Sauron... but let's wait and see how it plays out.
(This post was edited by micha84 on Oct 23 2014, 2:44pm)
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Oct 23 2014, 2:45pm
Post #11 of 24
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Very possible they were just reusing an image so there's no spoilers. Didn't they do a similar thing in one of the Vlogs?
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adt100
Rohan
Oct 23 2014, 2:57pm
Post #12 of 24
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It's from the EE appendices, so it's 'official' in that sense, if not necessarily the actual opening.
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adt100
Rohan
Oct 23 2014, 3:05pm
Post #13 of 24
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It could be an intentional red herring....
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... but if not then it does seem to suggest the Laketown attack is fairly swift and somewhat corroborates comments we have already heard.
In many ways it makes sense film-wise and I've thought ever since DOS that the second and third films are very much like HP: TDH in that respect. Straight into the action from the start.
Smaug was the star of DOS and had a long sequence at the end so I don't really feel short changed if we don't see a huge amount of him and Laketown in BOFA. This sequence is more about a resolution of that storyline before we can fully get into the events of the BOFA.
Some would say you could've cut the Smaug/Erebor chase scenes down and put this in the end of that, but I don't agree. It would be too much of a 'hurrah' 'happy ever after, the dragon is dead' kind of end and there simply wouldnt then be the time to ramp up the tension and set-up events for the BOFA. This way the two key strands of the second half of the book are brought together across the 2 films and gives i) a great cliffhanger ending for DOS and ii) a great action packed opening.
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tsmith675
Gondor
Oct 23 2014, 3:15pm
Post #14 of 24
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That would make the attack on Laketown way too short. I don't think it needs to be too long, but it definitely needs to be more than 5 minutes. It would feel so anticlimactic waiting a year after that cliffhanger in DoS for that entire sequence to be over in the first 5 minutes of the movie. There's just no way.
And it would be very jarring to have the title come up 20 minutes into the movie.
Our destiny lies above us.
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Shagrat
Gondor
Oct 23 2014, 3:17pm
Post #15 of 24
(495 views)
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I believe the AUJ title card comes up about 10-11 minutes into the movie (someone correct me on this if I'm wrong), so I suppose it's not unthinkable they could have it between 10-15 minutes.
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tsmith675
Gondor
Oct 23 2014, 3:25pm
Post #17 of 24
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But I still don't think that's enough time. Plus, I always think they put the title up way too late in AUJ. Maybe it's just me, but I like all the titles to be done as soon as possible. They kind of bring me out of it.
An example is Pacific Rim. I remember the first time I saw it, I was sucked in right from the beginning. The whole first battle was badass and I completely bought into the entire world. And then after over 15 minutes, the title "Pacific Rim" popped up. It took me right out of it. I don't know, that stuff just bothers me.
Our destiny lies above us.
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Oct 23 2014, 3:34pm
Post #18 of 24
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The main problem with ending with Smaug's attack...
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Is that audiences see that as the main goal of the story. It's like if Frodo had destroyed the Ring at the end of TTT. Audiences would be left with no reason to see the next film, because in their mind they've seen the climax.
I do wonder if the original intention was to kill Smaug in DoS. It makes sense with the title and would explain the drawn out ending. I imagine the studio wasn't happy with the idea for the reason I just mentioned and told PJ to try something else.
(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Oct 23 2014, 3:36pm)
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NecromancerRising
Gondor
Oct 23 2014, 3:39pm
Post #19 of 24
(447 views)
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I do not think that Smaug's demise was ever meant to be in DOS.As Jackson had stated on March 2013 during the first fan event of DOS,the battle of Dol Guldur and the White Council "kicking some ass" was going to be a part of the second movie
"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"
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Eleniel
Tol Eressea
Oct 23 2014, 4:37pm
Post #20 of 24
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The original split was always intended to be the Barrels sequences, which is why it was amped up so much - I believe PJ even stated that the movie would have ended with Bard's introduction, bow poised and we wouldn't know if he was friend or foe...
"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort
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DjU
Lorien
Oct 23 2014, 4:57pm
Post #21 of 24
(400 views)
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I believe the AUJ title card comes up about 10-11 minutes into the movie (someone correct me on this if I'm wrong), so I suppose it's not unthinkable they could have it between 10-15 minutes.
AUJ - 12.51 (EE: 13.59)
DOS - 06.33 (EE: 08.21)
Haven't got digital copies of LotR but off the top of my head FotR is about just over 7 minutes in TTT is 4 minutes and RotK around 9 minutes in.
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DjU
Lorien
Oct 23 2014, 5:04pm
Post #22 of 24
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I agree it much more likely it is something that Pellerin Multimedia / Trailer Park have simply knocked up to use in that montage in the Appendices rather the a final version from the film.
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Subaruman
Bree
Oct 23 2014, 5:52pm
Post #23 of 24
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So if a 13 - 14 min prologue has already been done, this scenario is possible
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13 - 14 minutes seems a reasonable amount of time for Smaug to destroy Laketown, followed by a quick decision between the survivors to start making their way to Dale.
"Here is a book very unsuitable for dramatic or semi-dramatic representation. If that is attempted, it needs more space, a lot of space."
- J.R.R. Tolkien, 1956
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sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea
Oct 23 2014, 6:15pm
Post #24 of 24
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If this *is* indeed the case...
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This means Smaug's attack on Lake-town can't really be any longer than 7-8 minutes, which will give real ammunition to those who question why it couldn't have just formed the climax of DoS. ...I will be in a bad mood for the entire film, thinking about how that could have been how DoS ended instead of what we got (which i pretty much hated).
Furthermore, a Middle-earth film just isn't quite the same without an introductory flashback... I couldn't agree more with this-- it would be a real shame.
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