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Boromir Stark
Rivendell
Oct 23 2014, 1:30pm
Post #1 of 8
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Azog's Fate in BOFA (Spoilers)
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There has been so much speculation since the release of AUJ on how Azog would meet his maker - would it still be at the blade of Dain's red axe, as in the canon, or would it now be at the hands of Thorin, his movie-verse nemesis?
Personally, I would rather it be Dain that kills him, not only to sort-of correct the canon that was messed with by having Azog still be alive, but also because it would give Dain a solid hero moment and a good reason for the audience to back this last-minute character's ascension to the throne of Erebor following Thorin's death. That said, I could also understand it if it was Thorin who killed him. After all, they've built Azog up to be Thorin's nemesis over the last two movies, and they have already fought twice, each with one victory apiece.
However, having thought on it recently, I began to wonder... Why does it have to be one or the other that kills him? Why can't it be both?
Evidence from the last two movies show that no single dwarf has been able to stand toe-to-toe with Azog and win (with the exception of Thorin at Azanulbizar - but he was getting owned prior to chopping off Azog's arm). He swept aside a number of dwarf soldiers with ease, killed King Thror, then whooped on Thorin a great deal until that last moment arm-slice. Then later, at the end of AUJ, he defeated Thorin again (albeit with the help of his warg).
He's been built up to be this unstoppable force, so for anyone to defeat him in a straight-up duel at this point would be somewhat unbelievable.
I wouldn't mind seeing both Thorin and Dain taking him on as a team. Perhaps have Thorin face him first, giving him some problems and having some good moments, before being overwhelmed. Then Dain rushes in and makes the save, holding Azog off until Thorin gets back to his feet. The two then ready themselves, at go at him together, alternating strikes and pushing Azog back (picture Spartacus and Crixus vs Theokoles, if any of you watched Spartacus: Blood and Sand). During the contest though, Thorin takes a mortal wound and falls, and then Azog beats down Dain. He goes to finish Dain off, but with the last of his strength Thorin shoots back up and deals Azog a mortal wound in return, before crumpling to the ground. As both Azog and Thorin lay dying, Dain gets back to his feet and whips off Azog's head.
This way both sides of the "Dain or Thorin" argument get some manner of satisfaction. Thorin is the one who mortally wounds Azog and rescues Dain in the process (and as a result he sort-of comes out the victor in their rivalry), but it is Dain who strikes the final blow, as in the canon.
Thoughts?
(This post was edited by Boromir Stark on Oct 23 2014, 1:33pm)
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Oct 23 2014, 1:40pm
Post #2 of 8
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Thorin will kill him but after both himself being fatally wounded and the two other deaths.
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Arannir
Valinor
Oct 23 2014, 1:43pm
Post #3 of 8
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I hope both Azog and Thorin will be wounded in their duel.
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But it should be Dain who kills him in the end.
As I said in the other thread... it works much better for Thorin as a character imho if he does not get to kill Azog and/or Bolg.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Boromir Stark
Rivendell
Oct 23 2014, 2:07pm
Post #4 of 8
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Thorin's redemption shouldn't come until he is on his death bed, where he snaps out of his madness and realizes his folly, then repents for his actions and forgives Bilbo.
Until then it would be more fitting to have him utterly fail. It would be the culmination of his descent into madness - thinking that now that he has a crown on his head he is able to defeat Azog.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Oct 23 2014, 3:17pm
Post #5 of 8
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Any redemption comes after him learning of the other deaths and the certainty of his own, that seems to me to work in the same way.
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Bernhardina
Rohan
Oct 23 2014, 9:32pm
Post #6 of 8
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Dain must be the one to kill Azog
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Because he will be king under the mountain and it needs to be justified for the audience. You can't just take a character and make him king instead of Thorin, without making the audience respect that decision by giving the character of Dain some majestic (in lack of a better word  ) credibility.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Oct 23 2014, 9:49pm
Post #7 of 8
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I think I may have posted this before but the villain Dain should defeat is greed
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I would be interested, personally, in the idea that Dain merits his kingship much more on the basis that he is able to overcome greed and share the gold with those who deserve it, than on basis of killing an Orc. That seems to me much more in line with the text (and of course we might note that Beorn isn't suddenly awarded a crown for killing Bolg in the book).
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adam17017
The Shire
Oct 23 2014, 10:48pm
Post #8 of 8
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I agree with Spriggan. Dain's majesty should be shown through the one thing that Thorin could not do, which is overcome greed.
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