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Ethel Duath
Half-elven
Sep 28 2014, 2:58am
Post #1 of 6
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Thomas Shippey in a debate over Vikings
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Shippey comments appear about half way down, below the third picture. To me the article seems oddly worded, almost as if it was a slightly awkward translation from something else into English. But it's an interesting subject, and I like Shippey's comments.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...scandinavia-winroth/
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Sep 28 2014, 5:27am
Post #2 of 6
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As the Vikings see themselves...
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...raiding is part of what you do for a living.
For the last couple of years I've been reading Icelandic sagas. They are fascinating! You're reading about people conducting what is, for them, more-or-less normal lives. They love, they marry, they raise kids. Mostly they're farmers, but every few years they "go viking," which usually entails getting one or more ships and some men and heading for Europe, either to work as mercenaries for a King (of Norway, Denmark, Orkney, Scotland, ...) for a few years or to do some freelance raiding for wealth.
People care about their family members being killed, but don't seem to have any strong feelings either about their own deaths or deaths of those less connected to them. If you are wintering with an acquaintance in Norway and kill one of his servants in a drunken rage, that's considered a breach of etiquette, not a crime. However, it was the level of revenge killings in Iceland in the 13th C that led them to accept being under the King of Norway, because they recognized that it was out of control and counterproductive to a "normal" society.
Given the murderous records of Charlemagne (cited in the article) and Christians in Europe and Holy Land then and after, the Vikings don't seem to have had any special patent on violence.
(This post was edited by Elizabeth on Sep 28 2014, 5:28am)
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Elarie
Grey Havens
Sep 28 2014, 1:08pm
Post #3 of 6
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Interesting article, and they make the very good point that whenever you read history, you have to pay attention to who wrote it. "Objectivity" wasn't necessarily the point of most historical writings and trying to sift through the records to figure out what really happened must be a heck of job.
And on a related note - just consider what's happening right now in the Jefferson County school district in Colorado. The "re-writing" of history happens all the time, even today.
__________________
If this is to end in barrels, then we will all shampoo together.
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SirDennisC
Half-elven
Sep 28 2014, 2:19pm
Post #4 of 6
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I read mainly the Shippey portion.
The Viking strategy of insertion/foraging/extraction -- rather than occupation and defending supply routes -- is still employed today with great success. Occupation is about attrition and remains a costly way to wage war.
As for Providence, a pastor friend, also a fan of the Vikings TV series (History Channel), made an interesting if not salient observation:
History has cast Christians as victims of reckless barbarism at the hands of Vikings. However, at the time Viking raiding began, the Christian Church was all about cloistering rather than expansion --established and comfortable in most of Europe, they seemed content to wait out the "long defeat' where they were established. Since they were supposed to be carrying the Gospel to the four corners of the Earth, but weren't, Providence devised a way for the Gospel to be spread in spite of their efforts (or lack thereof).
Of course re-writing history, just as writing history, carries the threat of bias. Still, it seems there is greater opportunity to check facts and assumptions now than ever before.
Thanks Ethel!
(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Sep 28 2014, 2:19pm)
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Ethel Duath
Half-elven
Sep 28 2014, 7:56pm
Post #5 of 6
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History repeats itself, too, whether or not
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we re-write it! (Thinking of the book of Acts in the context you mention.)
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EomundDaughter
Lorien
Oct 3 2014, 2:00pm
Post #6 of 6
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there has been proof Vikings conquered Europe, Ireland and even sailed to America...
believe they were just strong, competent explorers and warriors, killers...who knows why their pagan culture finally was converted to a form of Christianity....
Christianity is the winner here!
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