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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
The power of music

Cari
Bree

Sep 24 2014, 3:39am

Post #1 of 15 (3596 views)
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The power of music Can't Post

We all know the significance of music within Tolkien's works, especially the Music of the Ainur but I would like to know what everyones view is on just how deep and powerful music actually is in tolkien's works, specifically the smaller less obvious things.


(This post was edited by Cari on Sep 24 2014, 3:41am)


squire
Half-elven


Sep 24 2014, 11:58am

Post #2 of 15 (3331 views)
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Tolkien's prose is written to be read aloud [In reply to] Can't Post

So the text is, to that degree, musical throughout.

Likewise in the early part of the Sil Tolkien says that water in Middle-earth echoes the Music of the Ainur, so wherever mention of water occurs in the story, including watery weather, we can assume the presence of music whether the text brings it out explicitly or not (as it often does, of course, even when the result is nonsensical).

I have to say, your question seems both universal and vague; is there some way to be more specific about what you are hoping to get insight on?



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Cari
Bree

Sep 24 2014, 1:47pm

Post #3 of 15 (3312 views)
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Within Middle-Earth [In reply to] Can't Post

My post was largely meant to apply to music within the actual story and not "real world" literature, sorry I didn't make that more clear ^.^

An example of what I am talking about would be the dwarves' music having an affect on Bilbo early in The Hobbit; I was curious of other people's ideas on how important music is within the story. Thanks for responding :)


Na Vedui
Rohan


Sep 24 2014, 10:32pm

Post #4 of 15 (3309 views)
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Nearly everyone in Middle Earth.. [In reply to] Can't Post

sings! Hobbits, Men, Elves, Dwarves, Ents, Tom and Goldberry - even Barrow-wights, and Goblins (in The Hobbit) - they're all at it. Song is both a carrier of memory and tradition (eg stories of Beren & Luthien, Amroth & Nimrodel) and a spontaneous response to grief or joy or whatever happens to be going on - everything from laments for the fallen and the ache of exile, to tralalally and taking a bath. It weaves past and present together - (e.g. the Misty Mountains song is both remembrance and a spur to action, and Bilbo's song of the Road keeps re-surfacing in different variants adapted to current situations). Sometimes it has the power of a prayer or spell (e.g. the Hobbits' call to Tom Bombadil, or Sam's song at the Tower of Cirith Ungol, that gives him strength). Is any other fantasy world such a sing-y place?


Cari
Bree

Sep 25 2014, 1:19am

Post #5 of 15 (3270 views)
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Exactly [In reply to] Can't Post

My point exactly xD that is the very reason why I made this thread because music has some literal magic/power within middle-earth and I was wondering what everyone's interpretations of it was.


CuriousG
Half-elven


Sep 26 2014, 12:37am

Post #6 of 15 (3268 views)
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Music = Power [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice topic, Cari. We could probably spend weeks discussing it. Or we should sing instead of discussing, I suppose.

Two very powerful examples of song as power are 1) Finrod singing songs of power against Sauron in the duel for Minas Tirith in the First Age. (And if I remember right, after losing and being in the dungeon, didn't he burst his bonds with a song and kill the werewolf that came for Beren, or is that my creative memory?)

2) I find it significant that when Luthien entered Morgoth's chambers, of all the possible ruses she could have tried, she offered to be his minstrel--and he accepted! And then she sang his whole courtroom to sleep.

Just two examples; so many more.

The little things? I like the power of Sam singing in Cirith Ungol, partly to raise his hopes, and miraculously, to find Frodo and raise his hopes as well.


a.s.
Valinor


Sep 26 2014, 2:51am

Post #7 of 15 (3250 views)
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music as light in LOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm always struck by the connection between the Music of the Ainur becoming first a vision (so, visual) and then material substance at the word of Eru, and the music turning into light behind the grey rain curtain in Frodo's dream in the House of Tom Bombadil:

"Frodo heard a sweet singing running in his mind: a song that seemed to come like a pale light behind a grey rain-curtain, and growing stronger to turn the veil all to glass and silver".

I don't think it's coincidence.

a.s.

"an seileachan"



Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Sep 26 2014, 3:06am

Post #8 of 15 (3313 views)
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In cultures where books are rare, music is very important. [In reply to] Can't Post

 Even though a number of cultures in Middle-earth are at least partially literate, most still lean toward the oral tradition. Also, in a world without movable type or the printing press, books would be handwritten and copied, therefore expensive and not commonly available. Even for those who could read, access to books would be limited unless they had a family library or access to an archive such as that in Rivendell or Gondor. Music is a method of recording history and events, of storytelling, and of remembering information to be passed on. I would include poetry in the same category, as it is speech with a musicality of form and is often chanted, if not outright sung. It is far easier to memorize large amounts of material in either poem or song form than it is to simply memorize large blocks of prose, and easier to maintain the integrity of the information in a stylized form.

Music/poetry records history.
Aragorn sings the Tale of Luthien to the hobbits, and Sam recites the verses about Gil-galad which he learned from Bilbo, who translated it himself. Bilbo composes the Song of Earendil. On the Field of Cormallen, the minstrel steps forward to sing his lay about Frodo's quest - and at that moment, records him into the annals of history. The King may have the tale recorded on paper in the archives, but the people will remember it through song. In The Hobbit, the dwarves have recorded the tragedy of their lost kingdom and their plan to reclaim it in the song Far Over the Misty Mountains.

Music preserves information.
The Ents remember all the Living Creatures in a list written in verse, and Treebeard tells the story of his travels in earlier Ages in a chant.

Music is used for storytelling and entertainment.

The dwarves all play instruments. Frodo sings to amuse the company at the Prancing Pony. Sam sings a song of his own invention about a troll. Bilbo composes walking songs. Pippin has a store of songs he thinks are too merry to sing on the eve of war.

Music is used for honor and praise
The Elves sing songs in honor of Elbereth. One might also assume songs are used in worship, though no religious expressions are explicitly given.

In oral traditions, music and poetry becomes not only the repository of history and memory, but of cultural expression and identity.


Quote
"That, I guess, is the language of the Rohirrim," said Legolas. "for it is like to this land itself; rich and rolling in part, and else hard and stern as the mountains. ...it is laden with the sadness of Mortal Men."

"It runs thus in the Common Speech," said Aragorn, "as near as I can make it.

Where now is the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing?
Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing?
Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing?
Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing?
They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow;
The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow.
Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning,
Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?


Thus spoke a forgotten poet long ago in Rohan, recalling how tall and fair was Eorl the Young, who rode down out of the North; and there were wings upon the feet of his steed, Felarof, father of horses. So men still sing in the evening."



In many ways, music is the literature of Middle-earth, and performs all the functions that books do now for us, perhaps more.

Silverlode



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"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dűm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."



(This post was edited by Silverlode on Sep 27 2014, 8:02am)


Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Sep 26 2014, 4:48pm

Post #9 of 15 (3251 views)
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*mods up* // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Bladerunner
Gondor


Sep 28 2014, 1:39pm

Post #10 of 15 (3196 views)
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It was before the feasts of the Gates of Summer (Tarnin Austa)... [In reply to] Can't Post

..that Morgoth chose to attack Gondolin.

Between midnight and sunrise, the ceremony was solemn and conducted in silence, but at dawn all of the elves would stand upon the walls and break into song to greet the rising sun.
When the elves noticed the red light of the enemy rising in the north and not of the sun rising in the east, instead of singing there were shouts of alarm and panic.
That is a powerful imagery.

This reminds me of the verse in the Old Testament which I'm sure would have been familiar to Tolkien: "And I will turn your feasts into mourning, and all your songs into lamentation."


Bladerunner
Gondor


Sep 28 2014, 2:30pm

Post #11 of 15 (3218 views)
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Continuing with my last response... [In reply to] Can't Post

There are many other references in the Old Testament to inanimate objects singing: valleys and pastures (Psalms); mountains and forest and trees (Isaiah); and stars ("When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?")(Job).

This spiritual idea that music is woven into the fabric of the universe could have been a source of inspiration when Tolkien was devising the beginnings of his mythology and the role of music in its creation.

Taking the notion beyond the spiritual or philosophical, String Theory also proposes that fundamental subatomic particles are composed of strings that oscillate (vibrate) in different ways. The oscillation mode of the string results in the creation of the various elementary subatomic particles.

So perhaps, this helps explain why music had such a fundamental role in Middle-earth events.


Cari
Bree

Sep 29 2014, 1:10pm

Post #12 of 15 (3208 views)
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Interesting [In reply to] Can't Post

That is a very interesting comparison between the Old Testament and Gondolin! It would be hard to believe if Tolkien did not plan that intentionally or at least notice the comparison with that verse.


Rembrethil
Tol Eressea


Oct 1 2014, 2:03am

Post #13 of 15 (3156 views)
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I've seen a theory propounded... [In reply to] Can't Post

specifically that all matter and the fabric of the Universe is one giant song. Using string theory, it supposes that all matter is made up of sub-atomic strings that oscillate at a particular frequency and magnitude that determines it's macroscopic qualities. So any change to the matter is the result of a force 'plucking' that string to change it's vibration, and thus its qualities. Combining two elements would also change the vibration of the strings by interference and reinforcement of the frequencies of the two different matter strings. They went even further to say that a Supreme Being could be able to manipulate the 'song' that the collective strings gave out, thus having great control over the physical Universe.

Stuff to think about! Are we all a song?

Call me Rem, and remember, not all who ramble are lost...Uh...where was I?


cats16
Half-elven


Oct 1 2014, 7:13am

Post #14 of 15 (3136 views)
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Your last line... [In reply to] Can't Post

For some reason it put "Are we human, or are we dancer?" in my head. CrazyTongue

In all seriousness, though, it's a neat thing to think about.



Join us every weekend in the Hobbit movie forum for this week's CHOW (Chapter of the Week) discussion!




Bladerunner
Gondor


Oct 1 2014, 11:30pm

Post #15 of 15 (3265 views)
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yup! That was what I was getting at! [In reply to] Can't Post

And Tolkien's idea of a world being created by melody and harmony (with a dash of disharmony) is very clever and prescient!

 
 

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