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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
How About our Actors & The Oscars??
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BlackFox
Half-elven


Sep 23 2014, 5:54pm

Post #26 of 50 (683 views)
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DOS was nominated for Best Visual Effects [In reply to] Can't Post

And for Best Sound Mixing and Best Sound Editing.



Arannir
Valinor


Sep 23 2014, 6:02pm

Post #27 of 50 (678 views)
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Of course DoS was nominated for VFX. [In reply to] Can't Post

But a majority of the academy (as well as reviewers and many viewers) found Gravity to be the more groundbreaking achievement when it comes to special effects. That's no snub.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



ltnjmy
Rivendell


Sep 23 2014, 6:08pm

Post #28 of 50 (670 views)
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I would love to see some Oscar Recognition - but I doubt it also [In reply to] Can't Post

Back when the LOTR trilogy came out I so wanted Sir Ian to get nominations for all three and felt great disappointment when Sean Astin did not at least get a supporting nod for ROTK. But do the Academy Awards truly award calibre all of the time ?

Richard Burton never won an Oscar nor did Peter O'Toole for all of the latter's acclaimed roles - obtaining only an honorary award shortly before he died. (And I apologize to all of the Whoppi Goldberg fans out there - but speaking as a woman of color myself - I don't know HOW she won an Academy Award for Ghost.)

I believe that all of ROTK's awards were well deserved, especially those won by Sir Peter for Best Picture and Best Director - but will at least Richard Armitage and Martin Freeman get the recognition (and of course my perennial favorite, Sir Ian) they deserve - I doubt it....FrownFrownFrown


Bernhardina
Rohan


Sep 23 2014, 6:21pm

Post #29 of 50 (694 views)
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No Oscars but perhaps a nomination for... [In reply to] Can't Post

... Martin Freeman? At least I think he deserves it. He has been praised for his role as Bilbo by almost every reviewer. But is his performance good enough for the Oscars? That depends on the last movie, if BOTFA gives him those moments to shine. I am crossing my fingers for Freeman to get at least a nod from the academy... Smile but I get discouraged when I think of all those incredible actors that did not get nominations for the LOTR, like Sean Bean, Andy Serkis, John Noble, Bernhard Hill...


About Sir Ian McKellen - I think the one nomination he did get for FOTR was it. Unfortunately. Because he is incredible as Gandalf, both grey and white! Heart


I'd love Richard Armitage to get a nod as well, but like with Martin Freeman, it totally depends on what sort of range PJ will allow them to show in the final film. I am afraid BOTFA will be too much about action sequences and stuff, to the actors disadvantage.


Other actors I think have done an outstanding performance this far include Evangeline Lilly, Ken Stott and Lee Pace.



Bernhardina
Rohan


Sep 23 2014, 6:35pm

Post #30 of 50 (653 views)
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Well deserved! [In reply to] Can't Post

All three nominations are well deserved, I think DoS should at least have won Sound Mixing. It was an outstanding work on he sound of DoS.



Bernhardina
Rohan


Sep 23 2014, 6:57pm

Post #31 of 50 (655 views)
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I'd say [In reply to] Can't Post

It's impossible to guess what nominations BOTFA will get, before we've seen the movie.



Noria
Gondor

Sep 23 2014, 7:12pm

Post #32 of 50 (676 views)
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That was then, this is now. [In reply to] Can't Post

The Hobbit films may or may not be as good as the LotR movies but times have changed. The LotR films were novel and unique, epic and beautiful, technologically ground breaking and also very good movies. The Hobbit is really just more of the same as far as the mainstream goes. There is also the poisonous effect of the fuss over 48 FPS and the two-to-three-film change.

While I think that there are a number of truly great performances in these movies and that overall the acting is rather better than in LotR, I too believe that these are not the types of roles or the type of movie that gets Oscar nods.

I was very happy for PJ and the crew when they cleaned up at the AAs a decade ago, but I was glad for their sakes, that they received recognition for all their efforts in bringing LotR to spectacular life on film. (Actually, that was the last Oscar telecast that I watched more than a few minutes of.) It seems to me that the AAs are often just recognition of some kind of phenomenon, rather than selection of the “best”. The LotR movies were that kind of phenomenon. The Hobbit is not.

But I hope I'm wrong.


Arannir
Valinor


Sep 23 2014, 7:22pm

Post #33 of 50 (653 views)
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Personally I do not believe... [In reply to] Can't Post

... that this is entirely true. Oscar buzz is something usually there even before a movie is there. Plus, movies that are part of a franchise will usually be judged in connection with the reception older instalments got... In the case of Bot5A the two other Hobbit movies.

Things such as the mediocre to good but not great reviews of AUJ and DoS, the criticism regarding HFR and CGI, the feeling of "good but more of the same", the change from two to three movies, etc will imho of course play a role for Bot5A's reception and award chances.

Everything taken together makes the Oscar chances look rather small imho.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



(This post was edited by Arannir on Sep 23 2014, 7:24pm)


Elizabeth
Half-elven


Sep 23 2014, 9:00pm

Post #34 of 50 (647 views)
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If Sean Astin didn't get a nom for RotK... [In reply to] Can't Post

...for sure nobody will get anything for this movie. That was such an awesome performance, with all the tear-jerking one could possibly want.

I agree that Freeman, Armitage, and McKellan are doing a terrific job, but these roles aren't Oscar material.








Elessar
Valinor


Sep 23 2014, 11:10pm

Post #35 of 50 (618 views)
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Would liked on we a win or two someplace. [In reply to] Can't Post

 



Glorfindela
Valinor


Sep 23 2014, 11:38pm

Post #36 of 50 (602 views)
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The racoon should get one [In reply to] Can't Post

Personally, I thought that the only actor who deserved an Oscar for the LotR films was Sir Ian McKellen. He is rather taken for granted now in his role as Gandalf, but I remember how astonishingly good he seemed right at the beginning, in FotR, and the beautiful, nuanced performance he gave. Without him, all three films would have been so much less than they were. I don't think any other actor could have achieved what he did – or have been as fitting in the role.

Andy Serkis should really have got an Oscar, too, for his use of motion capture in portraying Gollum. I'm not sure what award that would be, though.


glor
Rohan

Sep 24 2014, 4:39am

Post #37 of 50 (602 views)
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I am going to stick my neck out [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
it totally depends on what sort of range PJ will allow them to show in the final film



It does and I think there is a possibility of an oscar acting nod providing PJ allows the character moments to shine.

Here are my reasons:
  • The Oscars love madness, death and redemption.
  • The Oscars like to give awards to actors who have recently been highly acclaimed on the stage
  • The least competitive acting catergories are for, supporting actor or actress
  • The Game of Throne's effect: GOT has changed the landscape of how fantasy acting is regarded, It's a prestigious HBO hit, which has garnered a considerable number of Emmy and Golden Globe nods for acting and wins for Dinklage

The last thing it depends on as do all Oscar nods is, the competition, Peter O'Toole only failed to win for Lawrence of Arabia because he was up against Gregory Peck for To Kill a Mockingbird (which may or may not, in retrospect have been the right decision). The best supporting actor catergory is always a funny one, sometimes there is a particular performance that stands out and gets praised, sometimes it's just who got lucky with the right film and sometimes it is a way of acknowldging a stand out performance in what is considered blockbuster material.

Don't forget Johhny Depp was nominated for a best actor Oscar for Cpt Jack Sparrow...






No mascara can survive BOTFA


Arannir
Valinor


Sep 24 2014, 7:37am

Post #38 of 50 (578 views)
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Supporting Actor/Actress less competitive? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd say the opposite, since most roles are considered "supporting" by the Academy in the end (sometimes even against the categories the studios used for the consideration).

When I look at the last few years... these has always been a very cramped categories.

I also do not think that GoT had a major influence on how "fantasy acting" is regarded... the roles in GoT are all closer to those in a political thriller and/or drama.

Dinklage's Tyrion was for example award material right from the start and regarded as such imho... there was no need for a specific "change" in the thinking of people anymore.


I really think it is not the whole story to say if PJ allows them to show their whole range and lets character moments shine, then nominations will follow. That is imho not how the Oscars work.

I doubt that Bot5A is really on th radar of most voters anymore at this stage. I expect 2-3 nominations for technical stuff. But imho "The Hobbit" will most likely not be an Oscar-winning trilogy.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



boldog
Rohan


Sep 24 2014, 8:22am

Post #39 of 50 (570 views)
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Can I ask something [In reply to] Can't Post

What does an ensemble film mean? And how is the middle earth saga considered this?
Is an ensemble film one in which several characters have their own storyline and resolution to find? Rather than one or two characters as most films are based on?
Lol im confused and cant really follow with everyones posts Blush

But Answering the question, I do believe that Richard Armitage and Martin Freeman highly deserve an award, though I doubt they will win anythingFrown

I believe that Azog and Bolg are possibly the only two orcs who may be an exception to the typical evil nature of an orc. Azog had brought up his son, well enough that he actually acknowledges him as his own son. That is a first for any orc. And Bolg sets out to march upon Erebor in vengeance of his fathers death. How many orcs will Try and avenge another dead orc? Most will just forget about the dead one. This gives me hope that Orcs, have some traits of good in them, even if it is small aspects.


moreorless
Gondor

Sep 24 2014, 8:41am

Post #40 of 50 (563 views)
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Generally I'd agree but.. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I don't think there's much chance of winning anything at all, actually - there are certain sorts of roles which get nominated and certain sorts which never/almost never do, and neither LOTR nor TH offer much of the Oscar-bait types. The Hobbit movies are stellar ensemble pieces, but there isn't an Oscar for that. Ensembles fall into a sort of no-man's-land; nobody is enough of a lead to get a nod in the Best Actor category, and since everyone's a "supporting" role and they're all good, nobody makes enough of a solo impact to get into the Best Supporting category. Sir Ian was nominated for a Supporting Actor for Gandalf in FOTR, and they won't nominate him again for the same role in a prequel. I'd say the only person who would stand even the slightest chance of a nomination for BOTFA is Richard Armitage IF his death scene is astoundingly impressive in the acting department, but I can't say I really expect it. Bilbo is too much of a "light/comic" role to get a nom - comedy doesn't win Oscars. .


Its possible/likely of course that Bilbo's character won't have nearly as much of a comic bent to it in the third film but I would agree Armitage seems like the best longshot nomination if the right scenes are done well.

It would be a very long shot but one other possibility I would suggest is Lee Pace. Its hard to know just what material he'll be given to work with but there have been hints that it will be more significant than the books, potentially more than any of the other Elven characters.


(This post was edited by moreorless on Sep 24 2014, 8:42am)


Arannir
Valinor


Sep 24 2014, 8:42am

Post #41 of 50 (564 views)
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Any definition would be incomplete... [In reply to] Can't Post

... but LotR is - for me - an ensemble movie par excellence.

Though the heart of the story is Frodo, the other storylines and characters (as well as their development) shape it just as much - with parts of the movies even taking the focus away from the central plotline etc.

The Hobbit as adapted by PJ & Co is almost the same, though all the additional plotlines are more directly connected to Bilbo's story (characters meet more often, are closer together, directly influence each other more than some of the very seperate storylines of LotR).

Still, the developments of other characters and their portrayal is almost as essential to the movie as Bilbo's (and Thorin's whose development and character would have been close to a second leading role even if it was a straight adaption).

So you end up with a lot of actors who bring characters to live in the way necessary for the story - they may not all stand out such as the performances usually recognized by awards - but not because they are not as good or as worthy, but because they are more in the background by nature. It would actually be not good if they stood out too much. Because there has to be a believable balance to let the world come alive.


There are other movies that would have deserved an Ensemble Award or nomination over the years (Little Miss Sunshine, The Help, Carnage, Gosford Park, Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, Harry Potter), and there is talk every now and then to introduce an Ensemble Oscar.

LotR actually won Ensemble Awards... the Screen Actors Guilt for example awarded RotK for "Outstanding Performance by a Cast in a Motion Picture".

Wikipedia offers this definition:


Quote
An ensemble cast is made up of cast members in which the principal actors and performers are assigned roughly equal amounts of importance and screen time in a dramatic production.



The Emmys have the same discussion... LOST and now GoT being two of the shows that rely on the chemistry in their overall cast just as much as their individual actors.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



(This post was edited by Arannir on Sep 24 2014, 8:47am)


Bombadil
Half-elven


Sep 24 2014, 9:12am

Post #42 of 50 (573 views)
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THERE is a Couple of Thingiezz.. no one has brought up [In reply to] Can't Post

on this Discussion Thread..
to CONSIDER!

The Academy of Motion Picture Sciences (AMPAS)
has only about 3,000 (approximately) members
who can vote....

AND in... the coming 3 months
They will likely see the EE of DoS
THEN shortly thereafter?
The TE of Bot5A...SSOooo..
Putting the two films Closely together

1..They WILL SEE THORIN's descent into deeper Madness...

2. THEN His Redemption on his Death BED...(as glor mentioned above..).

SSOoo. Bombyz MONEY is ON.... RA!
for the WIN in the Acting category!

AS WELL..PJ is getting his STAR on the Sidewalk
early next year....around the time of the Awards Night?

SSOoo..Bomby feels "PJ for the WIN"
as Director...
(Partially for being pretty much ignored for the first two
Films..).

Remember this?
... they have expanded the BEST Picture Category to TEN Films, (in 2009)

...SSOoo..it would be REALLY Stupid
if BoT5A is left out?

Sometimes it is the Flavor of the Month in December
that wins in the Following few months.

By THAT time, Likely Bot5A will have grossed
nearly another BILLION dollars, which often
IZzzz.
what it takes to please the Voters....

LASTLY.. many, many people have been employed in SoCal
for some Three years on this Trilogy

& will Still be getting paychecks?
through January, 2015 while helping PUSH Bot5A
into Theaters worldwide, lastly ASIA...
where... likely
That Golden TICKET ( One Billion)!!!!

IZzzz...
................................................
An OpinionONLY? of course from
Block
Buster
Bomby
(Today brought to you readers in 3D)

CrazyCrazyCrazy

www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"

(This post was edited by Bombadil on Sep 24 2014, 9:19am)


Arannir
Valinor


Sep 24 2014, 9:22am

Post #43 of 50 (553 views)
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They have expanded the BP nominees, yes. [In reply to] Can't Post

After the snub for "The Dark Knight". And since then there often were blockbusters that made it on that list but not more than two a year.

I think the buzz of 2014 would rather swing in the direction of Interstellar, Planet of the Apes or Guardians of the Galaxy - if at all.

This year will be crowded for BP with the following movies already getting Oscar buzz: Boyhood, Imitation Game, Birdman, Foxcatcher, Unbroken, Lost Girl, Interstellar, etc.

I know, some of them are not even released, yet, and might fall out of the list if they are reviewed badly. But usually to gather enough buzz a movie already needs it before release - and can sometimes even carry it all the way through even if reception is mediocre (Les Miserables).

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



Loresilme
Valinor


Sep 24 2014, 3:54pm

Post #44 of 50 (516 views)
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"Best Ensemble" Oscar [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
but there isn't an Oscar for that



Too bad there is no Oscar category for Best Ensemble. Would probably be impossible to define requirements for it. But when a cast really gels, it elevates the entire film so much, seems there should be some way to acknowledge that.

And:


In Reply To
And if there's any justice at all, someday Andy Serkis will get a Lifetime Achievement special Oscar for his role in establishing motion capture as a legitimate acting process, not just computer animation.


Hear, hear Smile!


glor
Rohan

Sep 24 2014, 4:19pm

Post #45 of 50 (512 views)
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I still think it's a possibility [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't forget as McKellan once stated amongst others over the years, the majority of Oscar voters haven't even seen the movies they have voted for. As for GOT, I do think it has changed the critical context in which fantasy operates, despite the fact that I personally don't like GOT and feel it's overhyped and overrated but, it has bought credibility to fantasy in public and critical circles that would have run a mile from even admiting they liked the genre.

There is the major factor though regarding Oscar wins, the block studio vote. A films chances at the Oscars is, despite the pretense otherwise, heavily dependent on studio campaigning and the subsequent block vote. So any Oscar whether that be for acting, directing or SFX is reliant on Warner Brothers and what other potential runners they have in the Oscar race.


Quote

I'd say the opposite, since most roles are considered "supporting" by the Academy in the end (sometimes even against the categories the studios used for the consideration).

When I look at the last few years... these has always been a very cramped categories.



If by cramped you mean (usually) no obvious front runner(s), unlike the leading actor category, then yeah that's (kinda) what I meant by least competitive. The Leading Actor catergory tends to go to either; The Compensation award for an actor who did a decent performance but has been snubbed in previous years, The Tired Oscar Trope win,an named/credible actor whose role falls into the disabled, mental breakdown, tranformation, playing a non-heterosexual etc especially when the film is based on non-fiction, The Royalty Win; the legend that pops up once or twice a decade to grace us with their talent in a film e.g Daniel Day Lewis, or the Overhyped Win, OMGZ the critics/film festival crowd have said the performance was amazing, win (even if it isn't). The leading actor category is one where there are the real contenders and the also-rans in the nominees.

The supporting actor category is one where there tends to more suprises, more leeway, thanks to the less to chose between the nominees. Historically the supporting actor win has been the one with the most surprises and leftfield decisions deserved or undeserved; e.g, Joel Grey for Cabaret over Duvall, Caan and Pacino for The Godfather, Jim Broadbent for Iris, Christoph Waltz for Inglourious Basterds ( an acting win for a Tarantino film, was a huge surprise in 2009 because despite it being deserved, many felt the academy were not ready to give an acting award for that kind of role in a Tarantino film, which I think is a good example/parallel).

Anyway at the moment I think it's a possibility, the academy likes what it perceives as British stage actors, historically the awards have also favoured kings and leaders. I think it's too early to call but, so far this year, a lot of the films that have been hyped as contenders have not had the glowing revues expected of them at the film festivals. Late last summer a considerable body of opinion including those in the know, thought Idris Elba was a shoe in for best actor as Mandela , for Long Walk to Freedom but that was before the film came out.








No mascara can survive BOTFA

(This post was edited by glor on Sep 24 2014, 4:21pm)


glor
Rohan

Sep 24 2014, 5:32pm

Post #46 of 50 (510 views)
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Whilst Theatre performances don't count.. [In reply to] Can't Post

The stellar reviews, the kind that come around a couple of times a decade in London dramatic theatre, that the Crucible at the Old Vic got, Nine, five star reviews from some of the worlds most important and respected theatre critics, reviews full of the superlatives for the production and RA, that are rarely used and only then, when they are deserved. Theatre critics are not of the same breed as film critics, five star reviews are not handed out like sweeties, critics like the Guardian's Michael Billington can go an entire year without handing out 5 stars to any production, well when you have been reviewing theatre professionally for 49 years and have seen all the greats, you don't hand out praise easily!

This production has been filmed for cinema and on-line release which if it comes out in time for Oscar voting could give considerable weight to RA getting a nod from the Academy for Thorin. There is also the matter of the prestigious Evening Standard Theatre awards, the nominations and awards for this year will be over before the Academy gets to make it's decisions and RA is highly likely to get a nomination and, is a contender for a win. The Oscar voters like to acknowledge British thespians, it likes to pretend it's all about the acting, so invariably the Oscars don't want to look as if they are ignoring talent especially when it a british thespian getting high praise for the lead in one of the great American plays of the 20th century.

The other factor is the increasing number of actors who have had previous nods and wins from the Academy now doing CGI films, especially with the breadth of CGI films expanding into (supposedly) more grown up territory, e.g Gravity, has meant the mood has shifted and award winning actors such as Sandra Bullock are experiencing working in the CGI environment and openly commenting on how different and difficult it is working and giving a good performance under CGI conditions.

As someone with an academic background that includes cultural studies/sociology, I do sense a shift in film and the discourses surrounding what is and is not award worthy. The shift in way CGI films are now perceived and their subject matter, the shift in the financial basis of the industry which is now sustained more than ever by the big hit blockbusting franchises ( note the only big franchise to get any serious big Oscar wins is PJ Middle-earth series...) and the fact that the total profits from the grown up films the Academy traditionally acknowledges with awards, simply do not bring in the $$$s they used to. The Oscars are afterall a marketing tool and recently they have not been marketing the most profitable products and that will have to change, soon.

RAs chances depend on the mood of the Academy, how conservative or adventurous it is come this awards season, the competition, and what PJ delivers us in the final film.

perhaps It would be better saying, don't rule him out of the Oscar race yet

(Just an aside: it probably won't happen but to qualify as an Oscar film, all a film has to do is run in a commercial cinema in New York or LA for 7 consecutive days, there is an outside chance that Digital Theatres film of The Crucible at the Old Vic could actually achieve that, it's an outside chance but it's still possible.especially when the theatre creative director is one of Hollywood's hiters, Kevin Spacey

No mascara can survive BOTFA

(This post was edited by glor on Sep 24 2014, 5:33pm)


Nuradar
Rohan


Sep 25 2014, 11:43am

Post #47 of 50 (473 views)
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It would certainly be nice to have a nomination, at least [In reply to] Can't Post

The first two didn't fare too well at the Oscars in terms of acting. Only in the technical categories (sound, special effects).

I would love to see Ian McKellan get another nomination for Gandalf, and actually WIN this time. His portrayal of Gandalf will live generations.

I think Martin Freeman has done an outstanding job as Bilbo, so a nomination there would be nice, too. I'm not holding my breath for that, however. The Academy doesn't seem to take acting in fantasy films too seriously. That's too bad.


Arannir
Valinor


Sep 25 2014, 11:46am

Post #48 of 50 (472 views)
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Competition [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think it has that much to do with them not taking the acting efforts in the Hobbit movies seriously... it has more to do with there being many actors simply deemed more Oscar-worthy.

I would agree with that, despite admiring what especially Freeman has done with Bilbo.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Sep 25 2014, 8:06pm

Post #49 of 50 (445 views)
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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

I love Freeman's Bilbo. But the problem is when you look at other roles, especially Cumberbatch in Imitation Game, there's just no question who's going to get the nod. It doesn't make Freeman's performance lesser, it's just a different role.

I am going out on a limb and saying Cumberbatch wins best actor for that role hands down,

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


glor
Rohan

Sep 25 2014, 11:16pm

Post #50 of 50 (451 views)
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Nope, it is going to go to Eddie Redmayne as Stephen Hawkin// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

No mascara can survive BOTFA

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