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Speculation time: how did Gandalf plan to enter Mordor?
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Darkstone
Immortal


Sep 5 2014, 1:05pm

Post #51 of 61 (1068 views)
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There's the Blue Wizards [In reply to] Can't Post

As per the answer to the famous Riddle of the Sphinx, Wizards go on three legs.

Since I presume the Blue Wizards have staffs, and thus go on three legs, so it could be sad proof they went over to the Enemy.

******************************************
For a while the three companions remained silent, gazing after him. Then Aragorn spoke. "They will look for him from the White Tower," he said, "but he will not return from mountain or from sea." Then slowly he began to sing:

"Boromir is dead
Poor Boromir is dead
All gather round his canoe now and cry
He had a heart of gold
And he wasn't very old
Oh why did such a feller have to die?"

Then Legolas sang:

"Boromir is dead
Poor Boromir is dead
He's lookin' oh so purty and so nice
He looks like he's asleep
It's a shame that he won't keep
But the sun’s out and we're runnin' out a' ice."

Then Aragorn sang again:

"Boromir is dead
Poor Boromir is dead
From Minas Tirith comes a weepin' sound
The East Wind for a spell
Will now blow a different smell
Til Boromir is underneath the ground."

So they ended. Then they turned their boat and drove it with all the speed they could against the stream back to Parth Galen.

-Rodgers and Hammerstein, The Lord of the Rings


noWizardme
Half-elven


Sep 5 2014, 3:54pm

Post #52 of 61 (1042 views)
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Saruman's end, and Sauon's [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry - you did write "Saruman" and I did read "Sauron". My apologies. (Or, as Gandalf might say: "I was wrong. I was inattentive. I got distracted by Gwaihir" Smile )


Part of my mis-reading was that the two villian do come to interestingly similar ends, I think:


Quote
And as the Captains gazed south to the Land of Mordor, it seemed to them that, black against the pall of cloud, there rose a huge shape of shadow, impenetrable, lightning-crowned, filling all the sky. Enormous it reared above the world, and stretched out towards them a vast threatening hand, terrible but impotent: for even as it leaned over them, a great wind took it and it was all blown away, and passed; and then a hush fell.

ROTK Field of Cormallen (my italics)


And Saruman:


Quote
To the dismay of those that stood by, about the body of Saruman a grey mist gathered, and rising very slowly to a great height like smoke from a fire, as a pale shrouded figure it loomed over the Hill. For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the West came a cold wind, and it bent away, and with a sigh dissolved into nothing.

ROTK, Scouring of the Shire


I assume the "huge shape of shadow" is what is left of Sauron (though other explanations are available Smile ). Like Saruman, I think something of him is turned into something vaporous, before being literally blown away. (There is no mention of the wind direction here, but one can almost guess it...). The reader is left to decide whether this is common-or-garden atmospheric physics, or something metaphysical. As usual, the Tolkien buffet suits many tastes.

I like both passages - to me, Sauron's last moments seem to be intent on some final violence. Saruman's last moments seem more like an attempt to "go West" - an appeal for forgiveness? An arrogance that, despite everything, he would have a right to go there?

~~~~~~

"nowimė I am in the West, Furincurunir to the Dwarves (or at least, to their best friend) and by other names in other lands. Mostly they just say 'Oh no it's him - look busy!' "
Or "Hold off! unhand me, grey-beard loon!"

This year LOTR turns 60. The following image is my LOTR 60th anniversary party footer! You can get yours here: http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=762154#762154


noWizardme
Half-elven


Sep 5 2014, 6:08pm

Post #53 of 61 (1026 views)
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Wait: if the Ring was "forged", who has got the real one? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

~~~~~~

"nowimė I am in the West, Furincurunir to the Dwarves (or at least, to their best friend) and by other names in other lands. Mostly they just say 'Oh no it's him - look busy!' "
Or "Hold off! unhand me, grey-beard loon!"

This year LOTR turns 60. The following image is my LOTR 60th anniversary party footer! You can get yours here: http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=762154#762154


CuriousG
Half-elven


Sep 5 2014, 7:28pm

Post #54 of 61 (1062 views)
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Since you can buy so many "One" Rings online nowadays, [In reply to] Can't Post

and Dark Lords and Orcs have not yet conquered Arda, I'd say the whole Ring-scare was just Wizard & Elf hysteria about harmless trinkets. It's a shame the hobbits got caught up in it.


Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea

Sep 9 2014, 9:23pm

Post #55 of 61 (991 views)
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Saruman's information [In reply to] Can't Post

Saruman seemed to be the one of the wise whom knew the most about the Rings and their natures so I would guess that Gandalf got most of his information from him. The White Council did discuss the matter of the Rings and as Saruman was keen to point out, 'Have I not earnestly discussed the matter?' Mind, this does show that double-dealing can work both ways as I doubt if Saruman realizied what Gandalf would do with this information.


Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea

Sep 9 2014, 9:37pm

Post #56 of 61 (989 views)
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From the chapter the black gate opens [In reply to] Can't Post

It does say that from the mountains bordering Morder that Orcs issued from hundreds of holes. I think it fair to assume that some of those lead to Morder. Perhaps Gandalf's plan was to go down one of the passages with Aragorn and a few others as a diversion, then send Frodo with Sam down one of the others and hope that providence or the Valar would come up with some aid. Lets face it, that sounds like one of Gandalf's plans!


Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea

Sep 9 2014, 9:41pm

Post #57 of 61 (974 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

Frode did not start making decisions for his own once Gandalf left, it was only when he left the Fellowship at the end of book two that he did in my opinion.


Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Sep 15 2014, 10:35pm

Post #58 of 61 (960 views)
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I always thought Trotter's Very Bad Experience was in Moria [In reply to] Can't Post

and that's why Aragorn shows this unexplained reluctance to enter Moria in LotR. But I may be mis-remembering.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Sep 15 2014, 10:35pm

Post #59 of 61 (928 views)
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Me too! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Rembrethil
Tol Eressea


Sep 16 2014, 12:41am

Post #60 of 61 (963 views)
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I do believe it was Mordor. [In reply to] Can't Post

I too am going from memory, but I think that Trotter was tortured in Mordor, escaped, and wore shoes from then on.

Call me Rem, and remember, not all who ramble are lost...Uh...where was I?


Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Sep 16 2014, 3:37am

Post #61 of 61 (1078 views)
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It's a little ambiguous. [In reply to] Can't Post

From "Treason of Isengard" p. 10: "He has previously been to Mordor and been tormented (caught in Moria)." So maybe the Bad Experience began in Moria and continued into Mordor? That would explain where I got the idea of Moria, anyway.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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