Our Sponsor Sideshow Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
I need honest feedback from those who didn't like the movies
First page Previous page 1 2 3 Next page Last page  View All

Darkstone
Immortal


Sep 2 2014, 7:15pm

Post #51 of 57 (291 views)
Shortcut
From The Rules: [In reply to] Can't Post

Of all plots and actions the episodic are the worst. I call a plot 'episodic' in which the episodes or acts succeed one another without probable or necessary sequence. Bad poets compose such pieces by their own fault, good poets, to please the players; for, as they write show pieces for competition, they stretch the plot beyond its capacity, and are often forced to break the natural continuity.

But again, Tragedy is an imitation not only of a complete action, but of events inspiring fear or pity. Such an effect is best produced when the events come on us by surprise; and the effect is heightened when, at the same time, they follow as cause and effect. The tragic wonder will then be greater than if they happened of themselves or by accident; for even coincidences are most striking when they have an air of design. We may instance the statue of Mitys at Argos, which fell upon his murderer while he was a spectator at a festival, and killed him. Such events seem not to be due to mere chance. Plots, therefore, constructed on these principles are necessarily the best.

-Aristotle, Poetics, Translated by S. H. Butcher

******************************************
Buri-Ghân-Ghân Buri-Buri-Ghân-Ghân
Buri-Ghân-Ghân Buri-Buri-Ghân-Ghân
Buri-Ghân-Ghân Buri-Buri-Ghân-Ghân
Oh you Buri-Buri-Ghân-Ghân
Buri-Buri-Ghân-Ghân we love you.
And our Buri-Buri-Ghân-Ghân
Buri-Buri-Ghân-Ghân loves us too.
East, west, anywhere we go, on Buri-Ghân we depend
Ghân-Ghân-Buri-Buri-Ghân-Ghân
Our fine Drúedainic friend!
Ghân-Ghân-Buri-Buri-Ghân-Ghân
Our fine Drúedainic friend!!


pettytyrant101
Lorien


Sep 2 2014, 7:58pm

Post #52 of 57 (292 views)
Shortcut
Its not a matter [In reply to] Can't Post

of answering all the questions, its a matter of the choices they made and why.
Given you can explain the book version in a line of dialogue what writing reason is there for the decision to make Gimli expect to find Balin Lord of Moria and a bunch of dwarves waiting to give them a rousing warm welcome? What is it supposed to achieve? And what does it offer over the book version which sets up a mystery and a question to be answered and generates tension by the indication something went wrong.
There are many points in PJ's Tolkien films where I am baffled by their choices, and where they alter something that it seems needless to alter, and are usually changed for something poorer than the original. As in this case where Gimli's position only confuses matters and makes things less clear than in the book.

There is a difference between room to breathe and glaring illogic or change seemingly for its own sake.

As for overstating the dragon sickness, its not so much as overstating it as lamenting the lack of the book relationship between Thorin and Bilbo that would be better than it, especially in a supposed adaptation. Their relationship is what DoS should have been about- Bilbo coming into his own and the other dwarves turning to him instead of Thorin for ideas and what to do next. It should have been about Bilbo and the dwarves growing trust in him, making his first kill, rescuing them, coming up with the plans, effectively but without a desire to or ambition supplanting Thorin as de-facto leader in many ways.
They were so concerned on making Thorin more complex that they missed the complexities represented simply in the book and instead changed him so much the original character arc between them becomes impossible to portray.

"A lot of our heroes depress me. But when they made this particular hero they didn't give him a gun, they gave him a screwdriver so he could fix things. They didn't give him a tank, or a warship, or an x-wing fighter, they gave him a call box from which you can call for help. And they didn't give him a superpower, or pointy ears or a heat ray, they gave him an extra heart. And that's an extraordinary thing.
There will never come a time when we don't need a hero like the Doctor."- Steven Moffat


Arannir
Valinor


Sep 2 2014, 8:28pm

Post #53 of 57 (283 views)
Shortcut
Hmm... [In reply to] Can't Post

... imho in order to really create the mystery surrounding Moria you need more than that Bashki line. In the book this is all introduced in excessive dialogue in Rivendell. And their reason for not including this is simple.

The cinematic effect of entering the Mines and finding a tomb works quite well on many levels imho... And creates an enormous amount of tension for their journey through the Mines. I thought it worked great anyway and was a good way to handle it.

Bilbo/Thorin... That is probably something I as someone who doesn't really think greatly of the book can indulge in much easier. I find their relationship to be quite interesting and complex in the movie with a great potential for Bot5A, especially since the relationship is pretty warm.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



pettytyrant101
Lorien


Sep 2 2014, 8:58pm

Post #54 of 57 (280 views)
Shortcut
They only use one line [In reply to] Can't Post

for the set up they give in the film. At least the Bakshi line is in keeping with the book more or less and makes matters perfectly clear.

"A lot of our heroes depress me. But when they made this particular hero they didn't give him a gun, they gave him a screwdriver so he could fix things. They didn't give him a tank, or a warship, or an x-wing fighter, they gave him a call box from which you can call for help. And they didn't give him a superpower, or pointy ears or a heat ray, they gave him an extra heart. And that's an extraordinary thing.
There will never come a time when we don't need a hero like the Doctor."- Steven Moffat


Arannir
Valinor


Sep 2 2014, 9:19pm

Post #55 of 57 (273 views)
Shortcut
Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

... I guess it comes back to our different understanding of what is confusing in the adaptions or senseless and what is working "room" and suspension of disleblief. And that is fine :)

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



Elthir
Grey Havens

Sep 2 2014, 9:44pm

Post #56 of 57 (272 views)
Shortcut
Arihootle? [In reply to] Can't Post

... never heard of 'im meeself till now... but I wish he had directed The Hobbit.

Or Aeschylus.


Elthir
Grey Havens

Sep 3 2014, 1:14pm

Post #57 of 57 (267 views)
Shortcut
sorry, btw [In reply to] Can't Post

By the way Laineth, I also should apologize for this...


Quote
In short I just don't see a rule for film in general where even a surprise smacking into needs to be avoided, that all people being smacked into 'must' rather create a reason for being involved in the hero's adventure -- especially in a film with a quest into the wild!



As I realize this is not really the specific 'rule' you are suggesting or defending [and sorry I just couldn't help playing with the word 'smack' here], and so your more general response makes sense given that.

In my defense [despite my foolishness quoted here] I'm not arguing for unconnected-to-the-plot surprise encounters, but rather that [I think] we don't have to have this particular 'first contact' sort of thing, where the only way to connect the people/beings met on a quest is that they 'must' first do something to the 'Questers' in order to make them [the Questers] actually seek them out.

But again that's rather specific and so it's arguably straw-mannish to act like you said this was a 'rule'.

In any case I should stop fooling around in the film forums and think more about what I'm posting...

... but that can take time Cool

First page Previous page 1 2 3 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.