|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
grammaboodawg
Immortal
Aug 1 2014, 4:38pm
Post #1 of 19
(351 views)
Shortcut
|
It's time for some BS!
|
Can't Post
|
|
Okay... I'm putting the next few days' worth of BS out here today because my internet at home is not working *spasm* SO... don't peek at them all at once. Spread it out!!! ;) So here goes:
Here's part 2 of a 3-part Book Spoilers (pt. 1 looking at the Shire and how the leaders and followers played nice together... for a moment of Tolkien-zen. From Of the Ordering of the Shire: The Fellowship of the Ring ..."The only real official in the Shire at this date was the Mayor of Michel Delving… …who was elected every seven years at the Free Fair on the White Downs at the Lithe, that is at Mid-summer. As mayor almost his only duty was to preside at banquets, given on the Shire-holidays, which occurred at frequent intervals. But the offices of Postmaster and first Shirriff were attached to the mayoralty, so that he managed both the Messenger Service and the Watch. These were the only Shire-services, and the Messengers were the most numerous, and… …busier of the two. By no means all Hobbits were lettered, but those who were wrote constantly to all their friends (and a selection of their relations) who lived further off than an afternoon's walk. ... The Shirriffs was the name that the Hobbits gave to their police, or the nearest equivalent that they possessed. They had… …no uniforms (such things being quite unknown), only a feather in their caps; and they were in practice rather haywards than policemen, more concerned with the straying of beasts than of people. There were in all the Shire only twelve of them, three in each Farthing, for Inside Work. A rather large body, varying at need, was employed to 'beat the bounds', and to see that Outsiders of any kind… …did not make themselves a nuisance. ... At the time when this story begins the Bounders, as they were called, had been greatly increased."
6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observation List - May 15, 2014
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!
TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit
|
|
|
grammaboodawg
Immortal
Aug 1 2014, 4:40pm
Post #2 of 19
(274 views)
Shortcut
|
Here's part 3 of a 3-part Book Spoilers looking at the Shire and how the leaders and followers played nice together... for a moment of Tolkien-zen. From Of the Ordering of the Shire: The Fellowship of the Ring
…"…the Bounders, as they were called, had been greatly increased. There were many reports and complaints of strange persons and creatures prowling about the borders, or over them: the first sign that all was not quite as it should be, and always had been except in tales and legends of long ago. Few heeded the sign… …not even Bilbo yet had any notion of what it portended. Sixty years had passed since he set out on his memorable journey, and he was old even for Hobbits, who reached a hundred as often as not; but much evidently still remained of the considerable wealth that he had brought back. How much or how little he revealed to no one, not even to Frodo his favourite nephew. And he still kept secret the ring that he had found."
6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observation List - May 15, 2014
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!
TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit
|
|
|
grammaboodawg
Immortal
Aug 1 2014, 4:41pm
Post #3 of 19
(270 views)
Shortcut
|
Here's a Book Spoiler that follows the trail of the Ring many years later… for a moment of Tolkien-zen. From A Long-Expected Party: The Fellowship of the Ring
… "As for Bilbo Baggins, even while he was making his speech, he had been fingering the golden ring in his pocket: his magic ring that he had kept secret for so many years. As he stepped down he slipped it on his finger, and he was never seen by any hobbit in Hobbiton again.
… He walked briskly back to his hole, and stood for a moment listening with a smile to the din in the pavilion and … …in other parts of the field. Then he went in. He took off his party clothes… …Then he put on quickly some old untidy garments, and fastened round his waist a worn leather belt. On it he hung a short sword in a battered black-leather scabbard. From a locked drawer, smelling of moth-balls, he took out an old cloak and hood… … locked up as if they were very precious, but they were so patched and weatherstained that their original colour could hardly be guessed; it might have been dark green. They were rather too large for him… …and from a large strong-box took out a bundle wrapped in old cloths, and a leather-bound manuscript; and also a large bulky envelope. The book and bundle he stuffed into the top of a heavy bag that was standing there, already nearly full. Into the envelope he slipped his golden ring, and its fine chain, and then sealed it, and addressed it to Frodo. At first he put it on the mantelpiece, but suddenly he removed it and stuck it in his pocket. At that moment the door opened and Gandalf came quickly in."
6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observation List - May 15, 2014
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!
TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit
|
|
|
Bracegirdle
Valinor
Aug 2 2014, 3:39am
Post #4 of 19
(254 views)
Shortcut
|
From a locked drawer, smelling of moth-balls, he took out an old cloak and hood… … locked up as if they were very precious, but they were so patched and weatherstained that their original colour could hardly be guessed; it might have been dark green. They were rather too large for him… This seems to imply that the hood and cloak were the same supplied by Dwalin after the Unexpected Party decades earlier. But they couldn’t be.Bilbo had escaped the gobins, but he did not know where he was. He had lost hood, cloak, food, pony, his buttons and his friends. -The Hobbit, Out of the Frying Pan . . So where did THIS cloak and hood come from? Ideas?
Cuio i Pheriain anann! Aglar'ni Pheriannath!
|
|
|
dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Aug 2 2014, 1:27pm
Post #5 of 19
(251 views)
Shortcut
|
Like old Bilbo forgetting he had already given Frodo his mithril-coat and Sting, our dear Professor forgot he'd already "lost" the cloak and hood Dwalin gave Bilbo.
I rather like to think that the Dwarf provided him with another set, for the return journey from Erebor. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
|
|
|
Bracegirdle
Valinor
Aug 2 2014, 4:19pm
Post #6 of 19
(245 views)
Shortcut
|
finding inconsistencies in The Redbook but I love the trivia of it.
Is there an out for Tolkien and the mysterious cloak and hood? Possibly!
Yes, Bilbo did lose his original cloak and hood (probably in the Goblin’s tunnels somewhere). But now we come to a passage in A Warm Welcome: Indeed within a week they were quite recovered, fitted out in fine cloth of their proper colours. . . So could the seamstresses of Laketown made 14 new cloaks and hoods, and THIS was the “patched and stained” one that Bilbo took out of the locked drawer after the Long Expected Party?
Or as you say it could have been provided by a Dwarf for his return journey. Whichever, it would have been an old and faded cloak and hood after 60 some years.
And BTW we are just assuming that the old cloak and hood were the ones given by Dwalin, as it is not so stated. So there seem to be several fairly reasonable “workarounds” for this “locked drawer” statement.
As for dear old Bilbo forgetting he had already given Frodo his mithril-coat and Sting; he was pushing 130 years-old and should be forgiven this minor piece of forgetfulness.
Cuio i Pheriain anann! Aglar'ni Pheriannath!
|
|
|
grammaboodawg
Immortal
Aug 6 2014, 3:27am
Post #8 of 19
(223 views)
Shortcut
|
Here's the first part of a 3-part Book Spoiler telling the history of the Redbook of Westmarch... for a moment of Tolkien-zen. From Note on the Shire Records: The Fellowship of the Ring
…"At the end of the Third Age the part played by the Hobbits in the great events that led to the inclusion of the Shire in the Reunited Kingdom awakened among them a more widespread interest in their own history; and many of their traditions... ...still mainly oral, were collected and written down. The greater families were also concerned with events in the Kingdom at large, and many of their members studied its ancient histories and legends. By the end of the first century of the Fourth Age there were... ...to be found in the Shire several libraries that contained many historical books and records.
… The largest of these collections were probably at Undertowers, at Great Smials, and at Brandy Hall. This account of the end of the Third Age is drawn mainly from the Red Book of Westmarch. That most important source for the history of the War of the Ring was so called because it was long preserved at Undertowers, the home of the Fairbairns, Wardens of the Westmarch. It was in origin Bilbo's private diary, which he took with him to Rivendell. Frodo brought it back to the Shire, together with many loose leaves of notes... ...during S.R. 1420-1 he nearly filled its pages with his account of the War... ...preserved with it, probably in a single red case, were the three large volumes, bound in red leather, that Bilbo gave to him as a parting gift. To these four volumes there was added in Westmarch a fifth containing commentaries, genealogies, and various other matter concerning the hobbit members of the Fellowship."
6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observation List - May 15, 2014
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!
TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit
|
|
|
grammaboodawg
Immortal
Aug 6 2014, 1:08pm
Post #10 of 19
(210 views)
Shortcut
|
Here's the second part of a 3-part Book Spoiler telling the history of the Redbook of Westmarch... for a moment of Tolkien-zen. From Note on the Shire Records: The Fellowship of the Ring
…"The original Red Book has not been preserved, but many copies were made, especially of the first volume, for the use of the descendants of the children of Master Samwise. The most important copy... ...has a different history. It was kept at Great Smials, but it was written in Gondor, probably at the request of the great-grandson of Peregrin, and completed in S.R. 1592 (F.A. 172). Its southern scribe appended this note: Findegil, King's Writer, finished this work in IV 172. It is an exact copy in all details of the Thrain's Book in Minas Tirith. That book was a copy... ...at the request of King Elessar, of the Red Book of the Periannath, and was brought to him by the Thain Peregrin when he retired to Gondor in IV 64.… The Thain's book was... ...the first copy made of the Red Book and contained much that was later omitted or lost. In Minas Tirith it received much annotation, and many corrections, especially of names, words, and quotations in the Elvish languages; and there was added to it an abbreviated version of... ...parts of The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen which lie outside the account of the War. The full tale is stated to have been written by Barahir, grandson of the Steward Faramir, some time after the passing of the king. But the chief importance of Findegil's copy is... ...it alone contains the whole of Bilbo's 'Translations from the Elvish'. These three volumes were found to be a work of great skill and learning in which, between 1403 and 1418, he had used all the sources available to him in Rivendell, both living and written. But since they were little used by Frodo, being almost entirely concerned with the Eldar Days, no more is said of them here."
6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observation List - May 15, 2014
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!
TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit
|
|
|
grammaboodawg
Immortal
Aug 7 2014, 9:37am
Post #11 of 19
(208 views)
Shortcut
|
Today in Middle-earth
August 7, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. Bilbo and the Dwarves are on Forest Trail in Mirkwood.
(from Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)
..."It was not long before they grew to hate the forest as heartily as they had hated the tunnels of the goblins, and it seemed to offer even less hope of any ending. But they had to go on and on, long after they were sick for a sight of the sun and of the sky, and longed for the feel of wind on their faces."
The Great Years
August 7, 3018 (S.R. 1418)
1. Frodo waited for Gandalf's return as he made plans to leave the Shire.
(not from the appendices—general time frame from book)
..."Gandalf had left the suddenly after hearing something that made him anxious and needed looking into. At first Frodo was a good deal disturbed, and wondered often what Gandalf could have heard; but this uneasiness wore off, and in the fine weather he forgot his troubles for a while. The Shire had seldom seen so fair a summer..."
2. All trace of Gollum is lost.
[It is thought that at about this time, being hunted both by the Elves and Sauron's servants, he took refuge in Moria; but when he had at last discovered the way to the West-gate he could not get out. There is no real account of this other than references from others. This excerpt is from the Council of Elrond as an explanation of how Gollum escaped and was thus lost]
(from the appendices--repeated from June 20th post)
..."It was that very night of summer, yet moonless and starless, that Orcs came on us [Mirkwood Elves] at unawares. We drove them off after some time; they were many and fierce... ...they came from over the mountains, and were unused to the woods. When the battle was over, we found that Gollum was gone, and his guards were slain or taken. It then seemed plain to us that the attack had been made for his rescue, and that he knew of it beforehand. How that was contrived we cannot guess; but Gollum is cunning... ...The dark things that were driven out in the year of the Dragon's fall have returned in greater numbers, and Mirkwood is again an evil place, save where our realm is maintained.
...'We have failed to recapture Gollum. We came on his trail among those of many Orcs, and it plunged deep into the Forest, going south. But... ...it escaped our skill, and we dared not continue the hunt; for we were drawing nigh to Dol Guldur, and that is still a very evil place; we do not go that way.'"
August 7, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. The escort comes to Edoras.
(from the appendices)
..."At length after fifteen days of journey the wain of King Théoden passed through the green fields of Rohan and came to Edoras; and there they all rested. The Golden Hall was arrayed with fair hangings and it was filled with light, and there was held the highest feast that it had known since the days of its building. For after three days the Men of the Mark prepared the funeral of Théoden..."
6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observation List - May 15, 2014
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!
TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit
|
|
|
grammaboodawg
Immortal
Aug 8 2014, 12:17pm
Post #12 of 19
(200 views)
Shortcut
|
Today in Middle-earth
August 8, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. Nights without lights.
(determined from text - referencing Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)
..."...they tried lighting watch-fires at night, but they soon gave that up... ...it brought thousands of dark-grey and black moths, some nearly as big as your hand, flapping and whirring round their ears. They could not stand that, nor the huge bats, black as a top-hat, either; so they gave up fires and sat at night and dozed in the enormous uncanny darkness.
...All this went on for what seemed to the hobbit ages upon ages; and he was always hungry, for they were extremely careful with their provisions... ...they began to get anxious. The food would not last for ever: it was in fact already beginning to get low. They tried shooting at the squirrels, and they wasted many arrows before they managed to bring one down on the path. But when they roasted it, it proved horrible to taste, and they shot no more squirrels."
6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observation List - May 15, 2014
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!
TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit
(This post was edited by grammaboodawg on Aug 8 2014, 12:18pm)
|
|
|
grammaboodawg
Immortal
Aug 9 2014, 6:54pm
Post #13 of 19
(188 views)
Shortcut
|
Today in Middle-earth
August 9, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. The Company's suffering grows.
(determined from text - referencing Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)
..."They were thirsty... ...for they had none too much water, and in all the time they had seen neither spring nor stream. [Even if they found one stream in particular, they'd be out of luck.] It was well that Beorn had warned them against it..."
...[From Queer Lodgings]""...I will provide you with skins for carrying water, and I will give you some bows and arrows. But I doubt very much whether anything you find in Mirkwood will be wholesome to eat or to drink. There is one stream there... ...black and strong which crosses the path. That you should neither drink of, nor bathe in; for I have heard that it carries enchantment and a great drowsiness and forgetfulness. And in the dim shadows of that place I don't think you will shoot anything, wholesome or unwholesome, without straying from the path. That you MUST NOT do, for any reason.""
6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observation List - May 15, 2014
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!
TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit
|
|
|
grammaboodawg
Immortal
Aug 10 2014, 1:24pm
Post #14 of 19
(173 views)
Shortcut
|
Today in Middle-earth
August 10, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. Funeral of King Théoden [He passed on March 15].
(from the appendices)
..."...[Théoden] was laid in a house of stone with his arms and many other fair things that he had possessed, and over him was raised a great mound, covered with green turves of grass and of white evermind. And now there were eight mounds on the east-side of the Barrowfield.
...Then the Riders of the King's House upon white horses rode round... ... the barrow and sang together a song of Théoden... ...that Gléowine his minstrel made, and he made no other song after. The slow voices of the Riders stirred the hearts even of those who did not know the speech of that people; but the words of the song brought a light to the eyes of the folk of the Mark as they heard again afar the thunder of the hooves of the North and the voice of Eorl crying above the battle upon the Field of Celebrant... ...the tale of the kings rolled on, and the horn of Helm was loud in the mountains, until the Darkness came and King Théoden arose and rode through the Shadow to the fire, and died in splendour, even as the Sun, returning beyond hope, gleamed upon Mindolluin in the morning. Out of doubt, out of dark, to the day's rising He rode singing in the sun, sword unsheathing. Hope he rekindled, and in hope ended; over death, over dread, over doom lifted out of loss, out of life, unto long glory.
...But Merry stood at the foot of the green mound, and he wept, and when the song was ended he arose and cried; 'Théoden King, Théoden King! Farewell! As a father you were to me, for a little while. Farewell!'
......At the last when the feast drew to an end Éomer arose and said: 'Now this is the funeral feast of Théoden the King; but I will speak ere we go of tidings of joy, for he would not grudge that I should do so, since he was ever a father to Éowyn my sister. Hear then all my guests... ...Faramir, Steward of Gondor, and Prince of Ithilien, asks that Éowyn Lady of Rohan should be his wife, and who grants it full willing. Therefore they shall be trothplighted before you all.'
...And Faramir and Éowyn stood forth and set hand in hand; and all there drank to them and were glad. 'Thus,' said Éomer, 'is the friendship of the Mark and of Gondor bound with a new bond, and the more do I rejoice.'
...'No niggard are you, Éomer,' said Aragorn, 'to give thus to Gondor the fairest thing in your realm!'
...Then Éowyn looked in the eyes of Aragorn, and she said: 'Wish me joy, my liege-lord and healer!'
...And he answered: 'I have wished thee joy ever since first I saw thee. It heals my heart to see thee now in bliss.'"
6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observation List - May 15, 2014
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!
TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit
|
|
|
Bracegirdle
Valinor
Aug 10 2014, 2:23pm
Post #15 of 19
(170 views)
Shortcut
|
There is one stream there... ...black and strong which crosses the path. That you should neither drink of, nor bathe in; for I have heard that it carries enchantment and a great drowsiness and forgetfulness. For those who care for such trivialities, the Enchanted Stream is never called a “river” in the text. Only on CJRT’s map is it labeled “Enchanted R.”.
“Uva uvam vivendo varia fit."
|
|
|
Bracegirdle
Valinor
Aug 10 2014, 3:49pm
Post #16 of 19
(168 views)
Shortcut
|
bit of dialogue brings a tear to the eye of Bracegirdle!
'No niggard are you, Éomer,' said Aragorn, 'to give thus to Gondor the fairest thing in your realm!'
...Then Éowyn looked in the eyes of Aragorn, and she said: 'Wish me joy, my liege-lord and healer!'
...And he answered: 'I have wished thee joy ever since first I saw thee. It heals my heart to see thee now in bliss.'"
“Uva uvam vivendo varia fit."
|
|
|
grammaboodawg
Immortal
Aug 11 2014, 11:19am
Post #17 of 19
(164 views)
Shortcut
|
Today in Middle-earth
August 11, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. Bilbo and the Dwarves are on Forest Trail in Mirkwood.
(from Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)
..."There was no movement of air down under the forest-roof, and it was everlastingly still and dark and stuffy. Even the dwarves felt it, who were used to tunnelling, and lived at times for long whiles without the sight of the sun; but the hobbit, who liked holes to make a house in but not to spend summer days in, felt he was being slowly suffocated."
August 11, 3018 (S.R. 1418)
1. Frodo plans his departure
(not from the appendices-no text)
...Frodo continues with his plans to leave Hobbiton ever watchful for Gandalf's return as Sam secretly gathers clues and information for the Conspirators.
August 11, 3020 (S.R. 1420)
1. The Shire is being restored.
(not from the appendices-no text)
...The Shirelings have the restoration of their lands nearly completed. The Mallorn Party Tree thrives and grows at an accelerated speed along with the other saplings Sam had planted, each with a grain of Lórien dust from his gift of Galadriel.
August 11, 3021 (S.R. 1421)
1. The Red Book entries continue.
(not from the appendices-no text)
...Frodo works steadily on the Red Book of Westmarch as he enjoys his summer with Sam, Rosie and baby Elanor.
6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observation List - May 15, 2014
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!
TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit
|
|
|
|
|
