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vexx801
Rivendell
Jul 31 2014, 2:50pm
Post #1 of 4
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The Quest of Erebor Text -> Hobbit Trilogy
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Hey folks. I am not sure if this discussion belongs here or in the Reading Room, so feel free to move this if need be. Now, I recognize that the different versions of this text - The Quest of Erebor - are found in the Unfinished Tales, as well as the Appendix of the updated Annotated Hobbit. As a result, of course, it is material unavailable for use in regard to the Hobbit trilogy. However, much of the material, or the ideas, found within the text is also found in The Lord of the Rings - specifically, the condensed version of the text found within the Appendices.
My question is this. Although the text(s) as found in Unfinished Tales are out of the realm of usage, what concepts, phrases and ideas are found in the trilogy that we can clearly see in the Quest of Erebor, or, if anything, within the Appendices? Not sure if my question makes sense, but put differently - what do you think about viewing The Hobbit through the lens of Lord of the Rings, and the usage of Quest of Erebor material (as found in the Appendices, such as the Bree scene in DOS, Gandalf's White Council comment about Smaug being used to terrible effect, etc.) within the films? How well does it make use of this material. Further - are there plot points found in the versions found in Unfinished Tales that (cleverly) are woven into the films? Or can everything be found in the Appendices?
Hope this makes sense. Thanks for your thoughts!
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 31 2014, 4:30pm
Post #2 of 4
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The relevance of "The Quest of Erebor"
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Jackson's alterations negates some of Gandalf's original concerns as detailed in "The Quest of Erebor." The Wizard does not yet know that Sauron has occupied Dol Guldur, or even that he has returned. He is still aware of the potential and he does know about Smaug and the possible threat to the North that the dragon represents.
Gandalf does see the return of the Longbeards to Erebor as a measure that strengthens the security of the North (a view that is born out during the War of the Ring). He still sees the futility of a direct assault upon Smaug. A bit of foresight must have been upon him when he thought of the Shire and of Bilbo. Perhaps Gandalf was perceiving the echoes of the Music of the Ainur.
What Gandalf does not know, he can still guess at and anticipate. This means that "The Quest of Erebor" can still have relevance for the films.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 31 2014, 4:31pm)
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Salmacis81
Tol Eressea
Jul 31 2014, 9:50pm
Post #3 of 4
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Almost everything found in "The Quest of Erebor" can also be found in the appendices. I haven't read UT in a while, so the only thing I can specifically recall that was not in the appendices is the somewhat tense conversation between Gandalf and Saruman.
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vexx801
Rivendell
Aug 1 2014, 3:28am
Post #4 of 4
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In the Appendix of the Annotated Hobbit, Anderson provides us (with Christopher Tolkien's permission) with the full text of version B. In the Unfinished Tales, Text C is quoted in full, but only parts of text B is quoted.
In Text B, we have the interesting background of the dwarven company. As in the other versions, Gandalf travels to the Blue Mountains after meeting with Thorin at Bree and talks with him there. But here, in text B, he visits the Shire, hears some news of Bilbo, and comes back to Thorin. In this text, he then returns to the Blue Mountains while in a meeting with other dwarves - including Balin, Gloin, Kili, and seemingly others.
I find this to be rather significant, because the inclusion of 13 dwarves alone asks several questions. Why only 13? Why these 13? How did they find out? What is their motive? So forth. Tolkien provides an answer to this question here, where we see this meeting. Gandalf suggests a small number, a certain few chosen dwarves, and so forth. Many of these dwarves are already present at the meeting, as aforementioned.
So this particular nugget is one that I think would also be very helpful in the film, but unfortunately, there'd be a rights issue. But it does provide a helpful later in-universe explanation for the 13 dwarves, save Thorin.
(This post was edited by vexx801 on Aug 1 2014, 3:31am)
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