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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
I cut my own version of the Hobbit to test a theory...and I was right!
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Misty Mountain Hop

Jul 30 2014, 8:13pm

Post #51 of 62 (439 views)
If I cut my own version of all the films... [In reply to] Can't Post

...they would be 64 hours long housed in a round multi-Blu-Ray set in the shape of The One Ring.

"Only, you've never done a hard day's work." - Merry


Jul 30 2014, 11:03pm

Post #52 of 62 (387 views)
I agree [In reply to] Can't Post



Jul 30 2014, 11:21pm

Post #53 of 62 (390 views)
I am just happy about the movies we got [In reply to] Can't Post

and very happy Bof5 is near


Jul 30 2014, 11:47pm

Post #54 of 62 (380 views)
Shagrat [In reply to] Can't Post

They rehash LOTR music all throughout AUJ. One of the reasons I prefer DOS is because the sound track is almost completely new. Rehashing all the old themes too much, left the movie feeling "sort of stretched, like butter scraped over too much bread".


Jul 31 2014, 5:58am

Post #55 of 62 (349 views)
TnuaccayM [In reply to] Can't Post

Insulting me as a screenwriter, over an editing hobby you know nothing about is uncalled for. Since you are unfamiliar with the merit of my screenwriting or editing, you cannot truthfully comment on either. Screenwriting never even came into the discussion.

You wrote: "I and many others, unlike many people, do understand why make changes to the original work, and how it really works."

This clunky sentence is down right obnoxious. If you cannot phrase your words in a constructive manner without insulting, why comment? If it is permissible to "make changes to the original work" then what on earth are you insulting me for?

I won't be thanking PJ for the dishes song. I've already established that I don't like it. If that statement deeply offends you as a human being, then you are offended too easily.

disagree with your points. I'm aware of Jackson's reasons for his exclusion of various material. In some parts I agree with him, and in some parts I disagree. But I'm not going to simply accept anything from him, just because he's Peter Jackson.

I was actually interviewed for a moment by KTLA after seeing "AUJ" at the first midnight screening in Hollywood. When asked for my opinion, I responded, "It's not as good as Lord of the Rings, but Peter Jackson shows why he's one of the best directors working in film today."

He's great but he's not perfect.


Jul 31 2014, 6:52am

Post #56 of 62 (341 views)
IMHO [In reply to] Can't Post

Some of the responses have really been boderlining on insults.

But I guess you realized as well that your opening post sounded pretty aggressive and patronizing in some respects, especially the comments regarding P. Boyens. Your later comments shed a much different light on the whole ting though, especially since you never offered any links to your version but simply did it for your own joy (which is totally fine, I guess, though I don't know about going around the copyright, etc.).

I think we could all be a bit calmer around here - the discussion behind the whole post - in the end - is something that has often been discussed here: Azog.

Personally I do like the scenes he is in, inlcuding AUJ. However, they have yet to prove to me why he could not be called Bolg.

I really hope that decision to have both of them pays off in Bot5A (which could be likely). The Azog and Nazgul storylines are the two that really need their satisfactory conclusions in Bot5A, in order for me to be able to accept them in the end. Other decisions - such as Tauriel or Bard being a father - paid off much quicker.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.


Jul 31 2014, 8:01am

Post #57 of 62 (320 views)
A huge exaggeration [In reply to] Can't Post

Do give me the timing of this tracked LOTR music as compared to the amount of new material. It wouldn't top 10 minutes, and that's being generous. Aside from the Ringwraith theme and the Fourth Age Gondor one, the LOTR themes are all applied correctly. What did you want them to do, suddenly come up with new ones for places like Rivendell and the Shire? In DoS we visit mostly new places so it makes sense the music is more new.


Jul 31 2014, 8:03am

Post #58 of 62 (324 views)
I have asked this before... [In reply to] Can't Post

... is the chorus of the "Nazgul" theme the same as in LotR?

Also, isn't the actual Gondor theme a different one than that one used in AUJ? I know that the whole piece it comes from is called "Gondor Reborn", but does that "happy embrace" moment actually quote or use the typical Gondor motives? I don't think so... not sure though. In that case it is simply a "happy" (I know it could be described more eloquently) motif (that also plays while Barad-dr collapses, doesn't it?). In a way this would somehow resemble the feeling of the company that all major issues are or seem to be kind of resolved at the moment - there is unity within the Company, the Burglar seems to have grown into his role and Azog and his pack are far behind. And then the audience are reminded that Bilbo is very wrong with his last statement in AUJ.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.

(This post was edited by Arannir on Jul 31 2014, 8:09am)


Aug 1 2014, 3:11pm

Post #59 of 62 (285 views)
Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

Certainly these movies provide lively debate and we are all entitled to our opinion. But, it seems that things are bit heated, and need to focus on the edit.

The trouble with the Hobbit films is that they are an adaptation, based upon personal perspective and may not be agreeable for everyone.

Personally, I am of the opinion that the Hobbit films, as they stand, are well done, with some minor alterations that would work, depending on personal taste.

I have no problem with losing Azog completely, or not revealing the Orcs until "Out of the Frying Pan" because that is something that could work much better, thematically.

I do think that "Blunt the Knives" would be a song that should stay because it shows the Dwarves as a company, and a group that Bilbo is very much the outsider. As the film progresses we see him included more and more until he is accepted in to the company.

The other aspect of that acceptance is Thorin's hug. While it may seem out of character, it is a step in accepting Bilbo as part of the company and sets Thorin up to be more sympathetic, making his fall more tragic. I don't see it as out of character more as a gesture that would be accepted by Bilbo, more so than a head knock.

I agree with the OP's basic point that the Hobbit film could be much shorter and would be curious to see fan edits. But, given the direction that PJ and company decided to take with the films, I do understand why they are so long.


Aug 2 2014, 10:22pm

Post #60 of 62 (251 views)
Thanks for sharing... [In reply to] Can't Post

The reason I dislike the hug, is I feel that Thorin should grudgingly start to respect Bilbo all the way up until the Lonely Mountain when he give Bilbo the mithril shirt. This is a clear sign of respect and friendship at last. And then sadly, this is lost when Thorin and Bilbo have their bitter falling out over the Arkenstone. Then there can be a moment in battle that reignites that friendship (one saving the other from Bolg). This last moment, I expect actually will be in BOFA, but I feel would have had bigger impact had that awkward hug never been shot.

I could realistically not mind Azog and the whole burning tree scene if that were his first appearance. It would be far enough in the movie to not overshadow the main quest, as the scene itself is from the Hobbit. But the character would still be better served named "Bolg".

Between having Azog in the film or the "Blunt The Knives" song...I am between a rock and a hard place. I would not have minded the song so much were it not for the Mary Poppins style theatrics that went on while they were singing it. I suppose I would rather see that song than Azog.

Had the original Azog scene ended with Azog's death, and only existed to serve as Bolg's reasons for hunting the dwarves, I would have been more okay with the orc subplot. It doesn't take much to tweak AUJ. it's like listening to a beautiful chorus where occasionally you hear someone inexplicably quack like a duck. It's jarring, but if you ignore it you can still appreciate the overall performance.


Aug 2 2014, 11:31pm

Post #61 of 62 (251 views)
.. [In reply to] Can't Post

What? the melody appears nowhere else in the scores..


Aug 3 2014, 4:14pm

Post #62 of 62 (244 views)
I can see your point [In reply to] Can't Post

Azog is definitely a point that I think needed reworking. I actually like the idea of him dying in the fire, and Bolg hunting them from then on. One of the reasons that that could work is the look that Gandalf and Balin give each other after Thorin comments on Azog's defeat at Moria. When he is revealed to be alive at the end, it's a bit more shocking if it is the first the audience sees him as well.

The hug, we might just have to agree to disagree on this point, due to the fact that I think Bilbo needs to be accepted in to the company in order for the later actions by Thorin to have more impact.

Blunt the Knives is just fun for me, and keeps the more childlike tone that I think AUJ really had. To me, it fits more with the book and also gives a quick insight in to the difference between Dwarves and Hobbits.

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