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Sebastian the Hedgehog
Rivendell
Jul 27 2014, 6:17pm
Post #1 of 20
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Where would we be now if Del Toro had directed this whole series?
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I just remembered how PJ became the director only after Del Toro chose to leave these films. There have been a lot of changes because of that that have made people either love or hate this trilogy (and, obviously, the move from two to three films is one of them). But I can't imagine where we would all be now and how we would be feeling if Del Toro had done all of the movies. Despite having problems myself with some of the changes PJ made, overall I'm completely grateful that he was the one to take us on this second journey. Middle-Earth just wouldn't be the same without him, and I can't imagine I'd have as many feelings and as much excitement as I do now for this last movie. It just wouldn't be the same without the continuity and vision that PJ brings to the two trilogies. What are your guys' thoughts on this? 
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Farficom
Rivendell
Jul 27 2014, 6:28pm
Post #2 of 20
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My guess is that they wouldn't have made three movies... and we would be discussing the merits of a much different set of movies.
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Beorn's Bees
Lorien
Jul 27 2014, 6:31pm
Post #3 of 20
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I honestly really wanted to see his take...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQA0FYU64wo
This takes me back. I really wanted to see how he would have done it. It probably would not have been as enjoyable as PJ's, but who knows.
(This post was edited by Beorn's Bees on Jul 27 2014, 6:31pm)
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Arannir
Valinor
Jul 27 2014, 6:33pm
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... it all felt like a little bit of fate in the end.
And after the way PJ fought for TH being made... and afterwards for it being made in New Zealand, I have the strong feeling that he also "deserved" to do it himself (knowing that the word "deserved" is controversial in such circumstances).
We have no idea how GDT version would have looked like. They could publish some designs in a few years (or the Bot5A SEE at the very earliest), when all the controversy has calmed down and people - for better or worse - have accepted PJ's version. Right now, it wouldn't do much good, I think.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Lindele
Gondor
Jul 27 2014, 6:46pm
Post #5 of 20
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I've always felt that del Toro left
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because this is what was supposed to happen.
I never blamed del Toro for leaving (and obviously we don't really know all of the details of why) but I think it was very clear from the beginning that this was never his baby, and PJ had what it took to see it through…and was passionate about seeing it through, and was willing to do whatever it took to see it through.
Would del Toro have given a fresh, interesting perspective into this world and treated the story with love and care? Absolutely. I
know not everyone agrees with this but for me having the same window into The Hobbit that we had with LOTR, through PJ's eyes was very important to me. I really wanted that sense of continuity and fluidity.
So I am FOREVER grateful that del Toro left…and PJ took on this extremely large burden for us. Couldn't have worked out better for this fan.
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TnuaccayM
Bree
Jul 27 2014, 6:49pm
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Maybe wondering how PJ would have done it.
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And maybe waiting for the trailer of the bridge movie between TH and LotR. ;)
But I'm glad PJ did it. I like Gillermo del Toro's films, like Hellboy and Pan's Laberynth, but I don't think his style would have fitted the Middle-Earth Jackson had already visually created on the LotR films. I also think that It would have had lots of practical effects like animatronics and that stuff (which I don't really like too much). As a matter of fact, I think it would have been too realistic for both the Hobbit book, and the LotR films. Many people don't like it, but I think it is the special effects and the CGI that Jackson has put to these movies what have given the that ''fantasy'' feel that the story deserves. Del Toro's version might have been too crude or creepy for my taste, I think.
That's just my opinion, many people would have enjoyed a more realistic feel, but I don't.
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IdrilLalaith
Rivendell
Jul 27 2014, 6:59pm
Post #7 of 20
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Would it really have been that different?
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I actually haven't seen any of del Toro's movies (too creepy for me, for the most part), but I have a feeling that he wouldn't have strayed too far from Jackson's visual feel.
Wasn't del Toro the one who created Tauriel? If that's the case, then maybe there are more of his fingerprints on the movies now than we realize.
TolkienBlog.com
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Crunchable Birdses
Rohan
Jul 27 2014, 7:12pm
Post #8 of 20
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or was made to leave? Hehe, I guess we'll never know. ;)
But yeah, for all Del Toro's merits, I have to admit that I'm not really impressed with any of his movies, so I'm not convinced at all that he would have made a Hobbit as good as the ones we've got / are getting.
* crunch *
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea
Jul 27 2014, 7:14pm
Post #9 of 20
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He directed LOTR so he was meant to direct TH, wich is an encouraging thought
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!
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Arannir
Valinor
Jul 27 2014, 7:15pm
Post #10 of 20
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Pan's Labyrinth was good and rightfully his break-through. But when I watched Pacific Rim I wondered whether he might have indulged himself even more in the possibilities of mixing CGI and Middle-earth than Sir Peter ;)
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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NecromancerRising
Gondor
Jul 27 2014, 7:18pm
Post #11 of 20
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except for his last movie(the really bad Pacific Rim),with Pan's Labyrinth being one of my all time favourites.I honestly do not know where we would be or what his vision would be exactly,but i am pretty sure that he would make an intriguing set of movies if he was on board.
"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"
(This post was edited by NecromancerRising on Jul 27 2014, 7:18pm)
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jul 27 2014, 7:21pm
Post #12 of 20
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No idea, and I really don't think we ever will have...
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Things happen the way they do.
We wouldn't have had a properly continuous series over the two adaptations, I think, with somone else at the helm of the first three (or two) films. Then again, look how many different directors the Harry Potter films have had. The differences do show, but it still feels pretty much like one series, with some odd breaks in the continuity.
I was curious to see what Guillermo del Toro would have made of The Hobbit and enjoyed his participation on the boards here. I'm sure he would have made something very good. At the same time, I'm glad Peter Jackson did direct the films. I love the previous films so there's a real joy in seeing his vision, his style, on screen again. And now, coming to the end of the whole adventure, it's extra special, I think, that Peter Jackson is on board at the end as he was at the beginning.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 27 2014, 7:30pm
Post #13 of 20
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I actually haven't seen any of del Toro's movies (too creepy for me, for the most part), but I have a feeling that he wouldn't have strayed too far from Jackson's visual feel.
Try Hellboy 2. His Goblin Market in that might give a feel for what his Hobbit might have been like. The Elves in this movie might have also informed his approach to Thranduil and the Woodland Realm. Even so, it's all guesswork.
Wasn't del Toro the one who created Tauriel? If that's the case, then maybe there are more of his fingerprints on the movies now than we realize.
GdT did not create Tauriel unless perhaps he was involved in the conception of Itaril, the proto-Tauriel.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 27 2014, 7:31pm)
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MirielCelebel
Rivendell
Jul 28 2014, 2:39am
Post #14 of 20
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del Toro couldn't have done it
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I mean, he's got cool vision and he's creative, but he could have never given it the feel of continuity from LOTR, only PJ could've done that.
Wasn't del Toro the one who created Tauriel? If that's the case, then maybe there are more of his fingerprints on the movies now than we realize.
Um, no. Tauriel was a feminine invention. Phillipa and Fran convinced PJ to add her. He bent under their pressure. No, honestly, he probably loved the idea, but it was their idea.
"The Road goes ever on..."
Writing Bliss
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IdrilLalaith
Rivendell
Jul 28 2014, 4:27am
Post #15 of 20
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I don't remember where I read that del Toro created her. It makes a lot more sense that Fran and Phillipa created her character.
That's right, Otaku-sempai! I remember thinking how odd it was that there would be an Elf named Itaril, since that's very close to the Quenya version of Idril.
TolkienBlog.com
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KeenObserver
Lorien
Jul 28 2014, 9:04am
Post #16 of 20
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Many people don't like it, but I think it is the special effects and the CGI that Jackson has put to these movies what have given the that ''fantasy'' feel that the story deserves. The word (my go-to word) that I think best describes these film's visuals and the atmosphere it creates is "otherworldly".
I'm not the type to complain about the overuse of CGI. If it's good then that's fantastic; if it's bad then that's unfortunate (I won't blame it, bash it, or dwell on it).
But for me, I find this trilogy's aesthetic to be truly immersive.
There are effects in these films that the real world simply cannot replicate and I think that makes it all the more special.
Just thinking about that eighteen-second teaser for the teaser and the shots therein and how it all looks so delicious (odd adjective to use, I know, but that's what comes to mind).
And it is ultimately the result of Jackson's vision and his respect for technology and his desire to enhance the cinematic experience.
That's just my opinion, many people would have enjoyed a more realistic feel, but I don't. That's why the transition from The Hobbit movies to the LotR's will be interesting and appreciated.
It was a deliberate choice to establish a visual contrast between these two sets of films.
A worthwhile endeavour, IMO.
”The thirst for adventure is the vent which Destiny offers; a war, a crusade, a gold mine, a new country, speak to the imagination and offer…” - Jose Bergamin
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Arannir
Valinor
Jul 28 2014, 9:22am
Post #17 of 20
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I have rarely seen this expressed in a better way.
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:)
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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KeenObserver
Lorien
Jul 28 2014, 9:35am
Post #18 of 20
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Jackson has it.
Of course, the more-than capable Mexican director could have given us an entertaining and perhaps really peculiar take on this beloved fantasy story.
But I firmly believe that PJ has been able to capture that special something that Del Toro never could have.
Sir Peter's demeanour and charm can be felt throughout and his vision reigns supreme because it's steadfast.
He and his team so suitably and so effectively inject an endearing level of heart and a healthy dose of magic into their films.
I wouldn't want it any other way.
Here's a weird analogy: If Del Toro had ended up directing The Hobbit, it would have been like C.S. Lewis trying to write a story set in Middle-earth.
Because the imperfect Sir Peter Jackson (love him or hate him) is to these films what Professor Tolkien is to his writings.
”The thirst for adventure is the vent which Destiny offers; a war, a crusade, a gold mine, a new country, speak to the imagination and offer…” - Jose Bergamin
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Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Jul 28 2014, 12:52pm
Post #19 of 20
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With all due respect to Mr. Del Toro, just basing on Pan's Labyrinth and Hellboy II, and his use of animatronics, if that same style is applied to TH, what we would have got would have been a earthy movie(s) that may be about faerie of Earth, a familiar story retold/adapted, not that other-worldly wonder that permeates PJ's films and gives that rich texture of "EPIC". It would be interesting as others have stated but it would be Earth, not Middle-earth we get. So I'm glad to have PJ take TH in the end for sure.
Fan of both books and movies; it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment. But call me Lurker.
 Appreciating Thranduil, thread by thread: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII
(Tis true! More appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies)
 Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), Two, Three, Four (new! posted 16 Jul)
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
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 Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
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Darkstone
Immortal
Jul 28 2014, 2:29pm
Post #20 of 20
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Del Toro storyboards extensively and edits in the camera, meanig no extraneous footage, so there would be nothing left over to put in an EE.
Then again, there would be no Pacific Rim or Rise of the Guardians, so there's that.
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"We’ve heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the complete works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know that is not true."
-Robert Wilensky
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