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jackster
The Shire
Jul 23 2014, 7:22pm
Post #1 of 25
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My ultimate fear for this upcoming film
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I just saw the new teaser poster and it looks absolutely amazing. However, PJ has changed so much in these films (most of which I've been okay with), but I'm very worried that Peter Jackson won't pass up the chance to keep Smaug alive for the big battle of five armies. Just because it would be awesome to see Smaug fight huge armies in battle doesn't mean PJ should diverge this far from the books. I wouldn't be that worried if it wasn't for lines in the previous films implying that Smaug will side with Sauron and the orcs in war ("plan to unleash a weapon that will destroy all before it"), making it be very anticlimactic if he died in Lake-town before he can side with the enemy. It seems as if Jackson put these lines in to set up for something bigger. There have also been comments made by Benedict Bumberbatch that say he is involved in the final battle. I don't know if this means for Smaug or Sauron, but either would be pretty bad. Then there is also a theory made by someone on this site that Smaug will die in Lake-town and then will be brought back to life by the powers of the Necromancer. This seems unlikely, but after the recent picture of Gandalf and Bard looking worriedly at something in battle, it makes me anxious that it could be Smaug, risen from the dead. Though I am excited for the final film, this information that has been given worries me. Thoughts?
(This post was edited by jackster on Jul 23 2014, 7:23pm)
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jul 23 2014, 7:32pm
Post #2 of 25
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Not sure you'll want to know mine, but.....
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We've waited months for - something, anything.... This evening we have a jaw-dropping poster which you yourself say is amazing. Could you perhaps sit back and enjoy it, just for a while? And focus on the excitement, and the positive? Don't like for things that might not please you in a film you haven't seen that isn't even finished yet. Gandalf and Bard looking worried on a battlefield? Goodness gracious it MUST be Smaug risen from the dead. What else could it be? Well, how about orcs? Wargs? Bats? Thorin issuing threats from the Mountain? Battlefields tend to be worrying places. Sorry, but if I had £1 for every 'I'm worrried that Peter Jackson...' post I've seen in here I could retire and buy a yacht. Nothing bad has happened. Peter Jackson has just released a poster depicting a scene and characters stright out of the book. Enjoy it. That's my thought. Well, you did ask!
(This post was edited by dormouse on Jul 23 2014, 7:34pm)
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Carne
Tol Eressea
Jul 23 2014, 7:33pm
Post #3 of 25
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He's not going to be in the battle.
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Or so I've been told.
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Escapist
Gondor
Jul 23 2014, 7:37pm
Post #4 of 25
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I too have a tendency to worry
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but it tends to happen a lot more in situations where I feel that I have power to possibly do something about the object of my worry. In the case of these movies, I am enjoying just sitting back and allowing myself to be entertained.
If all the world's a stage then who's writing the script?
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DanielLB
Immortal
Jul 23 2014, 7:41pm
Post #5 of 25
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Smaug will be killed by (one way or another) Bard. Smaug will not be resurrected (just as Azog wasn't resurrected after Azanulbizar which many people feared...). The Necromancer will be vanquished before the Battle, and the five armies (Dwarves, Elves, Men, Eagles and Orcs) will fight on the slopes of Erebor. There has been absolutely no evidence to suggest otherwise. Bard and Gandalf's reaction could have been absolutely anything that occurred in the book - anything from the Orcs, Eagles, Thranduil or Dain arriving, to Bilbo being knocked unconscious by a falling rock.
(This post was edited by DanielLB on Jul 23 2014, 7:44pm)
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Dcole4
Rohan
Jul 23 2014, 7:41pm
Post #6 of 25
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While I can picture the shapeless Necromancer cloud diving into the lake and manifesting itself in a "zombie" Smaug, I highly doubt PJ would be so audacious to do it. It'd be straying much too far and would minimize the meaning behind the battle which is "dragon's dead, let's kill each other for greed and gold." It is a realistic fear, I do wonder how they'll handle the Necromancer's storyline. He's been set up as the mastermind behind the villains of the first two films, with a plot to take the mountain (and the dragon). It would be bizarre for him to just disappear 1/3 or 1/2 way through the film with the battle of Dol Guldur. From an audience's POV I'm sure they'll be expecting more from him. I think that this will come in the form of Thrain's ring, rather than resurrecting Smaug. I feel like it might be a mcguffin of sorts for Film 3. PJ wouldn't have had it mentioned so explicitly in the AUJ if he didn't intend to eventually bring it into the story. It didn't make sense to do it in films 1 and 2 since it'd contribute little to the theatrical cuts. But I feel like he may introduce it properly in film 3 as a major plot motivation for the orcs, etc.
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Avandel
Half-elven
Jul 23 2014, 7:45pm
Post #7 of 25
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I didn't get the impression that the Necromancer is controlling Smaug all that much if at all, which means the Necromancer doesn't know Smaug has flown off to Laketown. And of course IMO there are going to be LOTS of folks looking up at Erebor, either talking about Thorin and his behavior, talking about where the orcs are headed, etc. Maybe Thorin is on the walls of Erebor yelling some choice dwarvish at everyone Normally I'd agree that it's kind of anti-climatic to lose the dragon, but a point was made I think in the films that it's a HUGE nasty army on its way to Erebor. Also if you know the story the battle alone, in this case, is hugely climatic without the resulting confusion of having 5 armies + a dragon. I see these these films as big opening > ratcheting tension > huge climatic battle. Only question for me is the LAST part of the film, which Hobbit fans may delight in, but I just learned the term "falling action" and to a general audience they may not be too thrilled with a LONG, drawn-out ending. Because it may feel too anticlimatic to have it go on and on. As for BC's comments - well - I can see the Necromancer being there to oversee things, but then fleeing. But for all we know, BC is being playful and for fun they put him in costume and he is an orc or elf - like an extra.
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Name
Rohan
Jul 23 2014, 7:46pm
Post #8 of 25
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It would never work. Never. First, keeping him alive means he is able to fully destroy Laketown. That means no survivors. So almost everyone would die. And then Smaug would fly back to the mountain and kill the dwarves. Nothing to stop him. And if anyone did make it to the BoFA, he'd literally slaughter everyone in mere minutes. He could destroy tthe armies before they even got to the mountain. So don't worry.
How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb? "Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"
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Salmacis81
Tol Eressea
Jul 23 2014, 8:09pm
Post #9 of 25
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I don't think you need to worry about Smaug being at the Bo5A...
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...although I can't say the same for Sauron being there. I hope not, but PJ has ramped up Sauron's role in the story pretty significantly, so who knows.
(This post was edited by Salmacis81 on Jul 23 2014, 8:11pm)
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adt100
Rohan
Jul 23 2014, 9:31pm
Post #10 of 25
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Not in a million years. I believe BOFA will be the most true to the book of all. //
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Jul 23 2014, 9:59pm
Post #11 of 25
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THE word "WORRY" is the MOST "Worthless" Word?//
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea
Jul 23 2014, 10:27pm
Post #12 of 25
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as long as life goes one I´m learning that yes...
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it seems to be the worthless word
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!
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MJM
The Shire
Jul 24 2014, 4:14am
Post #13 of 25
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Okay, going off of what you have said, imagine this, Bard kills Smaug and the storyline continues as expected; however, Sauron (The Necromancer) uses his powers to inhabit Smaug's dead remains and control his body. This would explain how Benedict Cumberbatch could be involved in the final battle and I think it would be a better way for PJ to have Smaug take part in the Battle of the Five Armies than simply having Sauron bring him back to life. Sauron would be controlling his army, only in the form of a dragon. Towards the end of the final battle Sauron in dragon form could possibly face off against Gandalf or something of the sort. this would be more satisfying to the average moviegoer then having Smaug be killed off in the opening scene and at the same time, hardcore fans of the books would still have the satisfaction of Bard killing the actual Smaug. Personally I would like it better if Smaug stayed dead, however, I think that this would be a very intriguing way to change it up a bit and perhaps make the pacing of the film feel less choppy. And in all honesty, I would still love it if PJ chose to go in this direction. So what do you guys think of the idea?
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Name
Rohan
Jul 24 2014, 12:30pm
Post #14 of 25
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How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb? "Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"
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tsmith675
Gondor
Jul 24 2014, 1:46pm
Post #15 of 25
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While that would be cool visually...
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I wouldn't be a fan of that for the story.
Our destiny lies above us.
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Nolane
Bree
Jul 24 2014, 3:46pm
Post #16 of 25
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Absolutely NO CHANCE whatsover of Smaug being in the final battle
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Bishop
Gondor
Jul 24 2014, 8:55pm
Post #17 of 25
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I think what your sensing is where the connection between Sauron and Smaug that Jackson established in DOS may be heading. I wouldn't worry about it. IMO Jackson is shrewdly ramping up the tension between parties by interweaving these disparate characters and their motivations. For example, Smaug's death in Laketown will most surely piss of Sauron to no end, having lost such a terrible weapon because of the Dwarves. It may cause him to act rashly, force his hand, or maybe he will see it as a benefit? A chance to act? Either way, Smaug's defeat will clearly influence the flow of the larger narrative Jackson has developed.
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Wordofmask
Lorien
Jul 24 2014, 9:18pm
Post #18 of 25
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Why so many people prefer Aragorn vs Sauron at the gate in ROTK to Smaug at BOTFA?
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SafeUnderHill
Rohan
Jul 24 2014, 9:33pm
Post #19 of 25
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Why so many people prefer Aragorn vs Sauron at the gate in ROTK to Smaug at BOTFA? Nostalgia
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Rickster
Rohan
Jul 24 2014, 11:48pm
Post #20 of 25
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That i will not make it to december.
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MirielCelebel
Rivendell
Jul 25 2014, 1:10am
Post #21 of 25
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While I share some of your concern...
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...I'm with this guy:
Sorry, but if I had £1 for every 'I'm worrried that Peter Jackson...' post I've seen in here I could retire and buy a yacht. Nothing bad has happened. Peter Jackson has just released a poster depicting a scene and characters stright out of the book. Enjoy it. That is the best response I may have ever seen on these forums. It's so true! Myself included, these posts are worrying us all to death!! PJ has taken so many liberties at this point I agree with whoever said the actual battle will probably be the most true of all. It's his last Tolkien adaptation...EVER! unless by some miracle the Estate sells the Silmarillion, and let's be honest, it will NEVER happen. PJ will not blow his last chance to wow and amaze us :)
"The Road goes ever on..." Writing Bliss
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burgahobbit
Rohan
Jul 25 2014, 1:37pm
Post #22 of 25
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It's really the only way it would all make sense
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Phillipa Coyens has confirmed Smaug will die at Bard's hands in lake-town. But they have clearly set up the fact that Sauron intends to use Smaug as a decisive weapon, and it would be, as you said, terribly anticlimactic to leave that plot point hanging with Smaug's sudden death in the beginning of the film. Don't worry, Smaug will not actually be brought back to life. Instead, his dead body may be possessed by Sauron, so that the monster thus created will look like Smaug, but act and sound like Sauron. It's a crazy move, but one that PJ may make.
"I've found it is the small things, everyday deeds of ordinary folk, that keeps the darkness at bay. Simple acts of kindness and love. Why Bilbo Baggins? Perhaps it is because I’m afraid, and he gives me courage.” - Gandalf the Grey. "Do not be afraid Mithrandir, if ever you should need my help, I will come." - Lady Galadriel.
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MJM
The Shire
Jul 25 2014, 4:10pm
Post #23 of 25
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Nightwing
Bree
Jul 25 2014, 9:35pm
Post #24 of 25
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I'm worried that the Battle of Five Armies will have too much George Lucas-esque CGI nonsense and over-the-top Hollywood silliness and spectacle. I want a more grounded, dignified battle with a real sense of danger and suspense. I'm also worried that Boyens and Walsh will have Galadriel defeating Sauron at Dol Guldur, in yet another girl-power move on their part, and fool the average, uninformed moviegoer into thinking that Galadriel is truly the most powerful being in Middle-earth.
The Silmarillion (film series) The Flight of the Noldor - Beren and Lúthien - The Children of Húrin - The Necklace of the Dwarves - The Fall of Gondolin - The War of Wrath Someday.
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Bishop
Gondor
Jul 25 2014, 11:31pm
Post #25 of 25
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1. George Lucas-esque CGI nonsense and over-the-top Hollywood silliness and spectacle. 2. A grounded, dignified battle with a real sense of danger and suspense. I agree, but I also wonder if those two things are mutually exclusive. What we'll probably get in the end is all of those things in equal measure. I don't know if that's good or bad.
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