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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Jul 23 2014, 2:02pm
Post #1 of 8
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Was Balin ever really on board?
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This thought was triggered by another post regarding Bilbo's motives. I definitely feel some reluctance on Balin's part, in both movies. At the meeting in Bag End he was the biggest naysayer, and later he tried to talk Thorin out of going. The scene at the lake in DOS was more understandable - they needed a boat - but he was the first one to pull the plug on the quest when it appeared they had lost the light at the hidden door. Maybe he was afraid of what would happen to Thorin all along, or maybe he just thought the whole thing was too risky. He seemed okay with the Blue Mountains. Maybe he had enough foresight to realize what could happen besides all of them getting killed by Smaug. He even told Bilbo he didn't have to go down there, that there was no shame in changing his mind. Which of course makes me wonder why he went along with the quest in the first place. Maybe out of loyalty to Thorin, or maybe because of Dwalin, I'm not sure. Any thoughts?
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Lindele
Gondor
Jul 23 2014, 2:12pm
Post #2 of 8
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more than anybody understood the danger of the gold and wealth and what it could do to Thorin...and part of him knew that they were better off without all of the treasure. At the same time they deserve to have their kingdom back and he is incredibly loyal to Thorin. I'm sure he was torn...but very weary of returning (not to mention the dragon).
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Avandel
Half-elven
Jul 23 2014, 8:51pm
Post #3 of 8
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In that as a dwarf Balin certainly would have understood Thorin's familial bonds, and the need to reclaim the heritage of the dwarves - I think, again, it's going to be too easy to forget that the dwarves had obviously been at Erebor for quite a while - the loss of such an ancient seat of the dwarves was beyond devastating. The treasure itself (as the WETA books point out) is also the heritage of the dwarves, and I imagine a lot of it even pre-dates the time of Thror.
So I think Balin goes out of love and loyalty for Thorin "there is one who I could follow", for dwarf pride. That's not to say that even in going, the wise Balin wouldn't have had huge doubts as he expresses in AUJ - and he had known of the dragon-sickness. But I don't think it is dwarf nature to run from any challenge - and on some level, as we see when Balin enters Erebor, it meant much to him as well. Not enough, tho, that I think he wouldn't have preferred for Thorin to walk away from it all.
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Elarie
Grey Havens
Jul 23 2014, 11:13pm
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Balin in the movie does seem to be less than enthusiastic about the mission sometimes
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I hesitate to use the word "quitter" but he certainly seems to give in rather quickly. He's willing to go back to the Blue Mountains; he's willing to accept Bard's homemade weapons; he's the first one to leave the secret door; and so on. All of this would be fine as a portrait of his peaceful character except that we know that it's Balin who later leads the expedition to retake Moria, and these two different images of Balin just don't agree with each other. In the movies, it's much easier to imagine Dwalin leading an expedition to Moria than Balin, and who knows, maybe that's what actually happens. Dwalin decides to retake Moria and Balin goes along because he's his brother, but because Balin is the elder he becomes the nominal leader. Works for me. 
And once again the world has not arranged itself just for me.
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Loresilme
Valinor
Jul 24 2014, 3:00pm
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That's what makes him an interesting character
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You bring out all very valid observations. He was all those things. Which to my mind is part of what makes the characterization of movie-Balin so compelling - all those complexities. We'll probably see more of this too, in the next film as things get more dire.
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Noria
Gondor
Jul 24 2014, 8:33pm
Post #6 of 8
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Interesting topic and responses.
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Balin is kind of negative and I suppose that’s just his personality because he keeps making those reality check remarks. We knew from the beginning that Balin thought the quest was unnecessary and foolhardy since life was good in the Blue Mountains. It was only love of Thorin that brought him to Erebor with a small group of Dwarves who were not “the best nor brightest”. But I think there is more to him than that.
First, Balin strikes me as a pragmatist and a realist. He’s older and has lived through more than some of the other Dwarves. He sees things as they are and doesn't hesitate to say so. He also uses what’s to hand, as in Bard’s weapons, if that is all that’s available. He negotiates. Not being obsessed like Thorin, he’s more flexible. Balin doesn't seem to be much concerned with grudges, dignity and respect the way that Thorin and Dwalin are.
The other thing that I think is happening is that Ken Stott is one of the production’s name actors, with a great voice and delivery, so Balin makes a lot of these comments. James Nesbit gets the funny lines and Stott gets these ones.
Frankly, on the doorstep, I think Balin’s words were just a rather awkward mechanism to get the Dwarves to move off and give Bilbo his hero moment. The movies have plenty of those awkward little plot devices.
As for Moria, I can envision a Balin so heartbroken and disillusioned by the deaths of Thorin and his heirs and the passing of the kingship to Dain that he prefers to leave Erebor and win a place for himself elsewhere.
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elostirion74
Rohan
Jul 24 2014, 9:41pm
Post #7 of 8
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I agree with most of what you wrote, also about his love of Thorin being the main reason why goes on the quest. I especially like your second paragraph, since it describes so many essential traits of Balin's personality and shows how different he is from the rest of the dwarves.
I think of Balin's words to Thorin as an attempt to connect to Thorin's emotions and motivations, which Balin is more likely to know of and understand than the others due to their common experiences. Basically he's telling Thorin that he shouldn't set out on the quest with the sense that he is honour-bound to do so - he has already fulfilled his obligations to his people. He's trying to show Thorin that he can set the p the quest aside without feeling ashamed or feeling that he has failed his people or his ancestors. Because of Balin's experiences he's the only one present who can do this with credibility.
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Noria
Gondor
Jul 25 2014, 11:47am
Post #8 of 8
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Thanks Elostirion - same to you.//
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