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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Kili's morgul wound

Ardamírë
Valinor


Jul 16 2014, 6:57pm

Post #1 of 17 (1107 views)
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Kili's morgul wound Can't Post

So it's pretty common knowledge that the love triangle between Legolas, Kili, and Tauriel was shot in pick-ups. What I'm wondering is, how much of Kili's story with the morgul wound was originally in the script? Has there been any word on this? Was he always meant to be wounded and left behind in Laketown? If so, was he always healed by Tauriel?

I do hope that, if nothing is known yet, it is addressed by PJ and Philippa in the DOS EE commentary.


Name
Rohan


Jul 16 2014, 7:10pm

Post #2 of 17 (672 views)
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Excellent question [In reply to] Can't Post

And I have to ask, was the Azog/Bolg switch done in pickups too? If it wasn't, then wouldn't that mean Legolas was originally supposed ro fight Azog? Or maybe the entire subplot with the orcs entering Laketown was also a late addition?

I always get so confused with where/when/how/why these changes happen.

How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?

"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"


Mooseboy018
Grey Havens


Jul 16 2014, 7:13pm

Post #3 of 17 (654 views)
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How much of this has been confirmed? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've heard that the entire love triangle was shot during pickups, but I've also heard that only the stuff involving Legolas was added later.

I think it's safe to assume that Kili was always meant to be wounded and left behind from the start though. We at least know that he was wounded during principle photography because Bilbo mentions it before his "never venture east" speech that was shown during the live event, which I'm pretty sure was before any pickups had happened for DoS.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jul 16 2014, 7:28pm

Post #4 of 17 (603 views)
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I didn't see the live event [In reply to] Can't Post

when it was "live". I've since seen it on the DVD, but it doesn't have that bit with Bilbo. I pretty much figured the wound was part of the films originally, but I wasn't sure how much was pick-ups and how much wasn't.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jul 16 2014, 7:29pm

Post #5 of 17 (627 views)
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I'd say [In reply to] Can't Post

it probably was added. It seems like the sort of thing that was added to create a climax to the film.


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Jul 16 2014, 8:08pm

Post #6 of 17 (622 views)
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Whether Kili was always meant to get injured or not... [In reply to] Can't Post

we don't know, but the healing scene was almost certainly a late change: in a set report from EMPIRE Mag Aug 2013, Tauriel was seen resuscitating a human girl (probably one of Bard's daughters) instead...
Here's DLB's recent post on the subject -

http://newboards.theonering.net/...uid%20elvish;#752944


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jul 16 2014, 8:17pm

Post #7 of 17 (564 views)
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I completely forgot about that [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm sure that was swapped out for the Kili healing scene instead. Hmm, maybe the wound wasn't as bad originally, but was still included in some way.


Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor

Jul 16 2014, 9:38pm

Post #8 of 17 (519 views)
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I'll bet it was Sigrid [In reply to] Can't Post

If you watch the Orc attack Sigrid, he hits her pretty hard & knocks her on the bench. I'm pretty sure the Orc used his sword, which really should have been lethal. PJ is famous for changing his mind on things like this - perhaps he thought a bleeding/dying girl was too much for the film (it was a kid's book, after all) and substituted Kili - an adult dwarf. Which of course led to the Kili-Leggy-Tauriel triangle. You know, despite all the decapitations, wounds, etc. the only blood I remember seeing was on Legolas' nose! Maybe Orcs don't have blood?


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jul 17 2014, 12:42am

Post #9 of 17 (485 views)
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A scene from the thrird movie? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
we don't know, but the healing scene was almost certainly a late change: in a set report from EMPIRE Mag Aug 2013, Tauriel was seen resuscitating a human girl (probably one of Bard's daughters) instead...



I still think that the scene with Tauriel and the girl might take place after Smaug attacks Lake-town and it might still be in TH:BotFA.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Elizabeth
Half-elven


Jul 17 2014, 1:37am

Post #10 of 17 (459 views)
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Does Jackson really need another healing scene? [In reply to] Can't Post

That seems really repetitive and unlikely to me. I think it's entirely plausible that they had Tauriel healing one of Bard's daughters, and then the subject of the "triangle" came up and they went, "Whoa, she could heal Kili, instead!"








marillaraina
Rohan


Jul 17 2014, 3:46am

Post #11 of 17 (432 views)
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Or [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
That seems really repetitive and unlikely to me. I think it's entirely plausible that they had Tauriel healing one of Bard's daughters, and then the subject of the "triangle" came up and they went, "Whoa, she could heal Kili, instead!"


Or as often happens, they DID originally have two healing scenes and just decided to cut one.(Possibly, it still may show up, repetitive or not, to show that Tauriel cares about everyone, not just people she's felt some personal connection with).

But it seems most likely to me that both were there and then other one will be cut. Whenever you watch DVD commentaries, almost invariably at some point you have someone pointing out how some scene was shot and removed because it was considered "repetitive".

So they often write and even film repetitive scenes, only one of which ends up making it into the film because they suddenly realize "You know, this is repetitive, we don't need to see this again".


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Jul 17 2014, 9:14am

Post #12 of 17 (427 views)
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Kili was always meant to be mortally wounded [In reply to] Can't Post

Way way back, if you recall, we saw some B-roll footage of the Orc Interrogation Scene, where Tauriel is mighty PO'd at Narzug and delivers her line "You like killing things, orc? You like death?". This line only makes sense if Narzug had previously indicated that Kili would soon be dead.

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.






Ardamírë
Valinor


Jul 17 2014, 7:54pm

Post #13 of 17 (335 views)
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Hmm, I don't agree. [In reply to] Can't Post

There's any number of reasons she could be saying that to an orc. Also, was this B-roll footage from pick-ups or principal photography?


Bernhardina
Rohan


Jul 17 2014, 9:25pm

Post #14 of 17 (324 views)
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I cannot say anything with certainty BUT... [In reply to] Can't Post

... but some things you cannot change in pick ups, because theu change the whole movie storywise.

The dwarves where destined to split up when they split the book to three movies. However, it might have been that Kilis wound would not have been a very dangerous one that needed that sort of healing from Tauriel. In my opinion tough, I believe that Kili was always to be wounded and healed by Tauriel. What I think was added in the pick ups are the scenes where Legolas obviously is against the friendship between Tauriel and Kili. Like the one where he asks her wy Kili is staring at her and the when Thranduil claims Legolas is growing fond of her.

I have no idea why they did this and I think it was a big mistake to make Legolas the jelalous friend-zoned character in this movie.



marillaraina
Rohan


Jul 18 2014, 1:10am

Post #15 of 17 (295 views)
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Pretty sure. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
There's any number of reasons she could be saying that to an orc. Also, was this B-roll footage from pick-ups or principal photography?


Pretty sure it was from principle photography. Kili was always meant to be gravely injured and IMO she was always meant to save him. It's not ike the whole idea of them having a bit of "thing", however you want to interpret it, just came up late, it was known almost from the beginning and certainly before the pick ups were filmed.

IMO the only think that was added later on was Legolas part in a "triangle". That was a new addition, but Kili and Tauriel having a bond was not.


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Jul 18 2014, 5:19am

Post #16 of 17 (289 views)
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More from the B-roll and vlog [In reply to] Can't Post

This scene with the orc was from principal photography. Note also that we heard (in the early vlog) Tauriel say "u-danghada.. e orchal, ben Nogoth, pedithig?" (I am not sure...but he is tall for a Dwarf, don't you think?) also from principal photography, so it seems this plot line was always in the script.

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.






MirielCelebel
Rivendell


Jul 18 2014, 8:22pm

Post #17 of 17 (267 views)
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I'm pretty sure Kili's was always supposed to be wounded [In reply to] Can't Post

or else they would not have a reason to leave several dwarves behind in Laketown. Tauriel was probably always meant to heal him because despite the fact that Tolkien specifically mentioned in The Hobbit that the woodland elves possessed magical powers, PJ can never resist the urge to place an over-the-top female elf healing a poor short little wounded person in his Tolkien films.

Having said that, regarding the comment about Azog and Bolg:
https://atolkienistperspective.wordpress.com/2013/12/16/azog-bolg-and-yazneg-the-trios-tangled-design-history/

That article was posted on theonering back in December and I found it quite fascinating and quite enlightening when it came to the whole Bolg/Azog debacle. There was always supposed to be two lead orcs and they were Azog and Bolg and they were father and son (or spawn), just like the book. Keeping Azog alive was for the sake of plot in the films. Instead of a dwarf vs orc thing, it became a more personal Thorin vs Azog theme, so I can respect that. The issue with these characters was that there were two different actors and two different concept designs behind Bolg which is why the promotional items before AUJ look quite different from the current Bolg promotionals. I have the original Bolg action figure in the same package as a "Battle-damaged Gandalf" only the "battle-damaged" part has been taped over by the manufacturer and Gandalf's face painted over since they obviously took that scene out of the films.

"The Road goes ever on..."

Writing Bliss

 
 

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