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Ardamírë
Valinor
Jul 16 2014, 5:16pm
Post #1 of 7
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How would they be published?
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So I've been reading through UT and discovering some amazing little pieces of writing. I know Tolkien was hoping at one point to have the Silmarillion published along with LOTR, but is there any clue as to when/how some of these other writings would be published? I'm specifically refering to things like the account of Isildur's death, Cirion and Eorl, the second age history of Galadriel. It's been a while since I've read HOMe, so I don't remember if any of this was originally meant for the LOTR appendices or not. I assume much of it was just Tolkien tinkering for his own satisfaction, but was there ever any end-game for it?
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Jul 16 2014, 8:44pm
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While the UT sells to us Tolkien fans, I can't see a non-fan buying it and being able to follow such a disparate collection of tales.
So perhaps the end-game was this: the First Age tales would be put into The Silmarillion. Tuor & Gondolin (let's pretend it was finished, since this is speculative anyway) would wind up there, and the Turin chapter of the Sil would be expanded.
Then The Akallabeth is spun off as separate book accounting for the Second Age, and it could be appended by the stories about Isildur and Galadriel. Numenor's history mostly got interesting when it started interacting with Middle-earth again, so that would allow for coverage of Galadriel, Amroth, and everything else in the 2nd Age if The Sil were positioned as the 1st Age and LOTR was positioned as the 3rd Age.
Cirion and Eorl would wind up in the appendices of LOTR, along with the Quest of Erebor.
That's a rough sketch of how it could happen, assuming other writing happened to fill in gaps and provide transition.
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Elthir
Grey Havens
Jul 17 2014, 3:29pm
Post #3 of 7
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In February 1960, Tolkien asked if Rayner Unwin would...
'... have an objection to me publishing any seperate or minor items belonging to the Ring Cycle? I am frequently asked for small minor contributions and offered good terms for them. The things I have in mind are not integral parts of the Silmarillion, and for some of them it is very likely that no place will be found in that work, but I suppose I could publish them without in any way affecting the question of their inclusion in the major work if necessary.' JRRT
What were these works, considering the date?
And I know/think there is something later from Tolkien, a statement that seems to refer to some works more specifically -- but of course I can't find it! I was almost sure it was in Hammond and Scull's Chronology -- but in any case I think it was still a general comment as far as publishing goes; that is, Tolkien wondering if some of his Middle-earth related works might be published in some form.
Anyone know which quote I think I'm almost sure exists 
As for the pieces in Unfinished Tales in particular, part one contains unfinished attempts at updating the long prose versions of the Great Tales, thus they were not intended as chapters of Quenta Silmarillion proper, although obviously intended as part of the Silmarillion matter in the larger sense.
I think Tolkien wondered if some of the long prose Great Tales might be given as Appendices to Quenta Silmarillion [which contained the shorter prose accounts] -- this was possibly noted in Morgoth's Ring or War of The Jewels somewhere, if I recall correctly.
For the rest of Unfinished Tales each piece in particular has its own details to consider, even for speculation: the essay on the Istari for example, seems to have been born out of an index entry! '... an entry wholly uncharacteristic of the original index and its length, if characteristic of the way in which my father often worked.'
In any case I think *Selections From The Red Book Of Westmarch [TM] has a nice ring to it, which could mix stories along with records or annals, descriptions [Isle of Numenor], linguistic stuff, and so on.
Of course in theory -- here assuming that the actual works as they exist [and those 'ultimately intended' for publication of course] were finished and polished up for print.
(This post was edited by Elthir on Jul 17 2014, 3:41pm)
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Jul 17 2014, 5:33pm
Post #4 of 7
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It is in one of the 'Myths Transformed 'texts in Morgoth's Ring that Tolkien suggests that the Great Tales were Numenorean in origin and that they should appear appendices to "The Silmarillion'. See Morgoth's Ring, p. 373.
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
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Elthir
Grey Havens
Jul 17 2014, 6:03pm
Post #5 of 7
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Thanks Voronwe.
I was leaning towards Morgoth's Ring but I threw in The War of The Jewels just in case 
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Ardamírë
Valinor
Jul 17 2014, 6:11pm
Post #6 of 7
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And it's good to see you too and to be back
Anyway, I agree that would certainly work to have the second age have it's own book. But mostly my question was if there was any actual plan for the little bits and pieces that don't seem to belong anywhere. I'm glad they ended up in UT, of course, but I can hardly imagine that was the original intent
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Ardamírë
Valinor
Jul 17 2014, 6:14pm
Post #7 of 7
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Yes, those are definitely a part of the Silmarillion tradition and would have been published together with that. I think your quote, though, has helped me see what the basic idea might have been. They might have been published in a volume of short stories. That's really all I was wondering. I'm so glad they were published in UT and others in HOME, but I'm also glad they were intended in some way for publication originally as well.
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