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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Rońc son of Carc [possible spoiler]
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Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jul 9 2014, 8:50pm

Post #26 of 37 (122 views)
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Meanwhile... [In reply to] Can't Post

Disney is planning a live-action remake of...Dumbo. I am speechless.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Kendalf
Rohan


Jul 9 2014, 8:57pm

Post #27 of 37 (116 views)
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Erm... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Disney is planning a live-action remake of Dumbo


ShockedCrazyWhat?!CrazyShocked

"I have walked there sometimes, beyond the forest and up into the night. I have seen the world fall away and the white light of forever fill the air."


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jul 9 2014, 8:59pm

Post #28 of 37 (108 views)
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Yeah... [In reply to] Can't Post

That was pretty much my reaction (and my wife's).

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Starling
Half-elven


Jul 9 2014, 9:20pm

Post #29 of 37 (114 views)
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It's a shame [In reply to] Can't Post

this guy is no longer with us. I'm sure he would have liked a shot at the role. Laugh


dormouse
Half-elven


Jul 9 2014, 10:18pm

Post #30 of 37 (105 views)
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Well.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Not so broad a difference as you're suggesting, I think, when it comes to simply seeing and hearing something that sounds like human speech coming from a bird. I've certainly seen pet birds that sounded very much as if they were using the language with a degree of understanding even though common sense said it was just repetition.

My point was simply that it's far more acceptable - normal, if you will - to see human speech coming from a bird, with a croaking bird-like tone, than to see it coming from a cat or a dog, a hedgehog or a hippo. And I can't see that a talking bird would present Weta's animators with much challenge at all as birds can and do replicate an intelligible version of human speech. After Smaug it should be a doddle...

Not saying they will do it, mind - I think it's odds on they won't. But I'd really love to see Roac play something like his proper part.


Kendalf
Rohan


Jul 9 2014, 11:35pm

Post #31 of 37 (95 views)
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Smaug had the necessary equipment for speech... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I can't see that a talking bird would present Weta's animators with much challenge...After Smaug it should be a doddle...


I'd argue quite the opposite Smile

Smaug had a fleshy mouth and everything that goes with it; pliable lips, a dextrous tongue. The task of animating such a mouth (whether it be on a dragon, a badger or a chameleon) in order to make it look convincingly like it's talking is, I suspect, a great deal easier than trying to animate a rigid beak that's utterly bereft of the flexibility required to vocalise the requisite range of sounds.

Yes, some birds can "replicate an intelligible version of human speech" but only in short, repetitious, meaningless bursts. Animating that would be a doddle. Animating a bird stringing together coherent sentences and responding instantaneously to questioning is, I'd suggest, another thing entirely and, I'd also suggest, something way beyond the capability of any studio.

And for that reason, I'd be happy if Roac "played something like his proper part", as you say, simply by croaking and being interpreted.

Smile

"I have walked there sometimes, beyond the forest and up into the night. I have seen the world fall away and the white light of forever fill the air."


peterLF
Rivendell

Jul 10 2014, 12:50am

Post #32 of 37 (99 views)
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indeed...! [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree, I don't think it's ever going to happen... But the indifference to Smaug opens up for him to survive moreso than killing him off early - which I could imagine would be "a shame to kill off such a good character so early". I don't think anyone will have a hard time imagining PJ sitting there being interviewed and going something like "we really felt that the early death didn't fit the pace of the movie, and I thought a dragon in the Battle of the 5 Armies would be really cool" or along those lines - like he has done so many times :-)

The reason I brought it up was that it has been a topic discussed here earlier in the year, and it was a reference to that.

PS: I do rank the Desolation of Smaug up there with the Lucas travesties though. That film is so wrong in so many ways. So far the Hobbit films have this tagline for me: "Came for the P.J., stayed for the Freeman"... And Weta and Serkis of course :-)...


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jul 10 2014, 4:08am

Post #33 of 37 (100 views)
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Voicing Rońc [In reply to] Can't Post

This is the sole reason why Frank Welker was born!

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


leonmuse
Rivendell


Jul 10 2014, 5:53am

Post #34 of 37 (87 views)
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PJ'S REASONING [In reply to] Can't Post

It's hard to understand PJ's reasons or rationality. The guy thinks it's okay for Trees to talk and move and a Dragon to talk, but not Eagles and Ravens.

It seems like a matter of mood. Back when LOTR was made we can only assume he was more open to crazy ideas. I doubt Treebeard would have been in the movies had the LOTR been made nowadays.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jul 10 2014, 1:21pm

Post #35 of 37 (62 views)
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There is an obvious difference... [In reply to] Can't Post

Ents and dragons are obviously magical creatures (as are the giant spiders of Mirkwood). The ravens of Erebor are not so special at first glance, although Tolkien does explain that their line is an ancient and magical one. I'm not providing Jackson with an excuse, just an explanation.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Rembrethil
Tol Eressea


Jul 13 2014, 6:20pm

Post #36 of 37 (28 views)
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Ents.... [In reply to] Can't Post

In the books, the Ents are described as much, much more humanoid than the films portray them. The films portray them more as talking trees, and the books as tree-ish humans. Huorns are actually Ents closer to tree form, and they cannot speak. As originally conceived, Ents look more like large people with wooden skin, so the question of them talking, from a book-centric vantage, is not quite the same as a common bird speaking a Mannish/Dwarvish tongue.

In the books, Roac is actually an exception tot he rule. The thrush and other ravens need the human to interpret their language (Al a Bard and Dain).

As for dragons, it is a well established tradition for them to talk, and some cultures actually see them as the manifest form of a spirit. This is also what sets them apart from the raging bestial monsters that only serve to be slain. Can we really imagine Bilbo's confrontation with Smaug without the dialogue?

All that said, you are entitled to you opinion, so cheers mate!

Call me Rem, and remember, not all who ramble are lost...Uh...where was I?


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jul 13 2014, 8:24pm

Post #37 of 37 (35 views)
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You are mostly right... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
In the books, Roac is actually an exception tot he rule. The thrush and other ravens need the human to interpret their language (Al a Bard and Dain).



You are correct about the thrush, but not the ravens; some members of Rońc's kin are indeed capable of Mannish speech. I think you are confusing them with the crows that are understood by the Dwarves but do not speak Westron.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

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