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Wilros
The Shire
Jun 29 2014, 7:35pm
Post #1 of 9
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The Marches of Doriath
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This is something that puzzled me after recently re-reading The Children of Hurin. Why does Thingol maintain a large armed force on the Northern Marches of Doriath? My understanding of the Girdle of Melian is that it prevented any from entering Doriath without Thingol/Melian’s consent (Beren being the exception of course). So why does Thingol send Beleg, Mablung, Turin and others out to the borders to engage in skirmishes with orcs, where they might be killed or captured? A few ideas crossed my mind:
• These limited engagements keep Doriath’s forces sharp and ready for battle
• Thingol is trying to prevent Morgoth’s forces from circling around him and/or attacking the Dwarves and Green Elves
• Thingol is doing a favor for Turgon in keeping the orcs away from Gondolin’s front door (seems unlikely considering Thingol’s disdain for the Noldor)
• It is simply a plot device to show Turin’s coming into manhood
I don’t find any of these answers fully satisfying. Anyone else have some ideas on this?
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Jun 29 2014, 8:02pm
Post #2 of 9
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It does seem unnecessary, doesn't it?
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And I'm not sure I have a satisfying answer, though I lean toward your point about Thingol not wanting Doriath to be encircled.
Maybe there was the sense that if you allowed Morgoth to do whatever he wanted to outside the Girdle, he might find a way in, so you needed to keep his armies off-balance on your frontier? And maybe there's the psychological sense that even if your borders are secure, you want your enemies to be afraid of you, so you harass them, or they won't take you seriously.
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Felagund
Rohan
Jun 29 2014, 8:10pm
Post #3 of 9
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Reckon you covered most of the plausible answers. I'd some other couple of possibilities:
Thingol kept an interest in Brethil, which he'd granted to the Folk of Haleth. It was outside the Girdle of Melian, so needed more conventional protection. In the days when Halmir was Haldad, Beleg led a strong force of axe-wielding Sindar into Brethil to drive off an army of marauding Orcs
Keeping engaged in Brethil kept the pressure off the one Noldorin realm he had good relations with, Nargothrond
Keeping the Sons of Fëanor at bay. With Thingol refusing to hand over the Silmaril recovered by Beren and Lúthien, and to join the Union of Maedhros, Celegorm and Curufin vowed openly to kill Thingol and destroy Doriath. Thingol is then (understandably!) described as fortifying his marches
Welcome to the Mordorfone network, where we put the 'hai' back into Uruk
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Ethel Duath
Half-elven
Jun 30 2014, 2:06am
Post #4 of 9
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I think both your points are very likely.
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Plus not wanting to be encircled. I agree with everyone that there may have been many reasons operating at once.
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Meneldor
Valinor
Jun 30 2014, 2:41am
Post #5 of 9
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Let's also consider the will of the soldiers.
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Even inside the Girdle, I don't think it's a secret that the war against Morgoth is not going according to plan. I can imagine many of the professional soldiers of Doriath listening to news of the disasters outside and chafing at the bit to put their training to use against the ravening orcs running roughshod over Beleriand. They'd constantly be petitioning and pressuring Thingol for a chance to get out and DO SOMETHING!
They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters; These see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep.
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sador
Half-elven
Jun 30 2014, 3:57am
Post #6 of 9
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Less than a generation before,
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the Girdle was penetrated twice - by Beren, and by Charcharoth.
And I'm pretty sure it wouldn't stop an army led by Sauron, or Gothmog.
Possibly not even a determined attack by a regular army - as in Tolkien's (discarded) tale of Boldog's raid.
Also, keeping somewhere relatively safe in the vicinity would prevent a stream of refugees from elsewhere trying to find the way in.
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Jun 30 2014, 12:06pm
Post #7 of 9
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While he seemed isolationist, Thingol was held the High King of Beleriand, and unlike Turgon (as High King of the Noldor maintaining isolation), he felt a need to keep his borders clear so he could keep in touch with his citizens across Beleriand, however tenuous that was.
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PhantomS
Rohan
Jun 30 2014, 5:08pm
Post #8 of 9
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Thingol's Border Patrol- minus the pickup trucks
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Thingol still needs to patrol his borders as Doriath is officially shut out to most of the Noldor and as well as Men. The Girdle keeps most people out but Thingol knew he would need defenders of a more conventional sort should something ,somehow penetrate the Girdle. The Northern Marches are a dangerous area as they are close to the Iron Mountains, with unreliable allies in the Noldor of the east (Maedhros, Maglor, Curufin and Celegorm), dangerous flat land between them and the fairly weak Men of Brethil.
Thingol can easily defend his east and western flanks while south is more friendly with Narogthond and the Laiquendi available, as well as the Dwarven cities. His north is fraught with danger as refugees will come there from any fall of the strongholds of the Noldor and men. While giving his soldiers practice it also gives him a good scouting position, much like Haldir did for Lothlorien.
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Wilros
The Shire
Jul 1 2014, 7:09pm
Post #9 of 9
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Thanks for the discussion. Some good points I hadn't considered before. Perhaps I tend to cast Thingol in more of an isolationist light than what he really was.
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