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boldog
Rohan
Jun 23 2014, 11:36am
Post #1 of 7
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Lets say the company entered Moria just like FOTR
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And basically the same sort of things happened as the fotr, only there is no Balins tomb. They end up being surrounded by goblins, and the Balrog comes forth. They cross the Bridge of Kazad dum, and Gandalf faces the balrog, but falls.
What I find interesting is how the dwarves and Bilbo will react? Will Thorin be like Aragorn? Will Bilbo go all emotional like Frodo?
What I think will be the case is that the dwarves will have mixed emotions. They will all be upset with this sudden loss of such a great person, but they will also be full of despair, in seeing Moria in such a state. Being Dwarves, their pride for their culture will be the main emotion they face.
Thoughts? Just imagine the bridge of Kazad dum scene from fotr, but with no fellowship, instead, the 13 dwarves and bilbo....
I believe that Azog and Bolg are possibly the only two orcs who may be an exception to the typical evil nature of an orc. Azog had brought up his son, well enough that he actually acknowledges him as his own son. That is a first for any orc. And Bolg sets out to march upon Erebor in vengeance of his fathers death. How many orcs will Try and avenge another dead orc? Most will just forget about the dead one. This gives me hope that Orcs, have some traits of good in them, even if it is small aspects.
(This post was edited by boldog on Jun 23 2014, 11:37am)
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Name
Rohan
Jun 23 2014, 12:13pm
Post #2 of 7
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During BoFA you'd have all the "good guys" start fighting each other, and then the goblins would have the element of surprise and probably wipe out the free people. Orcs would control Erebor, and the resistance against Sauron in the north would crumble. And since there's no resistance, Sauron could then use that extra army he has attacking Dale in LotR, and instead use it to crush Gondor. With Gondor out of the picture, the entire free world would fall to Sauron.
All because of Gandalf not arriving at BoFa.
How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?
"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"
(This post was edited by Name on Jun 23 2014, 12:15pm)
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joec_34
Rivendell
Jun 23 2014, 1:04pm
Post #3 of 7
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Interesting question!
Your thought that the dwarves would likely be primarily concerned with the ruin of Khazad Dum seems right to me. I recall watching media coverage of the World Trade Center terrorist attacks and aftermath, and it was perhaps a similar situation. I was concious of, and sorry for, the loss of so many lives; however, foremost on my mind was the implications for my nation. I suppose that it would be similar for the dwarves. They would be saddened by Gandalf's passing, but would be mostly preoccupied with the realization that Durin's Bane is using their great city as his stomping grounds.
"Happy painting and God bless, my friend." - Bob Ross
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea
Jun 23 2014, 1:22pm
Post #4 of 7
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Bilbo´s reaction would have been like in AUJ when he leaves Rivendell
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A concern of losing a father figure or something but not sadness, not pure sadness like Frodo, because Frodo knew Gandalf many years ago, Bilbo at the time of the Hobbit didnt (wel in his childhood)
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!
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Darkstone
Immortal
Jun 23 2014, 2:24pm
Post #5 of 7
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I can picture them sitting just outside the Dimrill Gate realizing that they're smack dab between hordes of bloodthirsty orcs on one side, and patrols of dwarrowphobic Galadhrim on the other.
No matter who ends up killing them, Haldir will be picking through the bodies and wonder at the hairy-footed beardless dwarf. (Who, BTW, has no magic ring, because Gollum's up north in the High Pass.)
******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
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Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor
Jun 23 2014, 4:29pm
Post #6 of 7
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I don't think it would end up the same...
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In the books:
I thought the mines were empty after the dwarven victory at the Battle of Azanulbizar. The only reason why the Dwarves do not return was the fear that Durin's Bane could be re-awakened right? So technically the Balrog was still there but sleeping somewhere deep down. The Orcs/Goblins returned later since no Dwarf entered it because of the Balrog. When Balin, Oin and Nori return to Khazad-dum after the Hobbit there were no Orcs left because all of them died during the Battle of the Five Armies. The Orcs/Goblins the Fellowship encounters entered Moria after Balin and Co tried to re-establish a new Dwarven kingdom in Moria. That's what Gandalf was reading in Balins tomb. So if we go by the book I would say it would end up completely different... on the other hand... when did Gandalf went there for the first time? Did he knew Moria at this point? And there's no Pippin who is stupid enough to make such noise to wake up the Balrog and the Goblins. But here's no Gollum, no One Ring as well...
In the movies:
First of all what is the actual status of Moria at the time AUJ in the movieverse? Beorn calls Azog and his minions "the Orcs from Moria" so I guess that after the victory of Thorin Azog and his Orcs still control Moria? So what happened after the "victory" then? How can it be a victory when the fight was about Moria and in the end not the Dwarves but the Orcs control the mines? In the end... when the Company would have entered Moria and most of Azogs Orcs where still there (execpt for Azogs hunting party) and even the Balrog was there I don't believe that the Dwarves would have made it.
Gandalf vs. Balrog
I also don't think that the AUJ Gandalf would win against the Balrog the way the FOTR Gandalf did. At this point he never faced a real threat. When Gandalf fought against Durin's Bane he did encounter Sauron, the Nine and Saruman. He survived the Battle of the Five Armies and defeated the Necromancer in Dol Guldur. The AUJ Gandalf on the other hand is not that powerful and fearless yet.
The Hobbits reaction
Frodo knew Gandalf for a long time. Gandalf was a friend of Frodo and his familiy so there's a huge difference to Bilbos situation. Yes... Bilbo would be upset and sad but not as emotional as Frodo since his friendship with Gandalf is just about to start.
Thorin like Aragorn
No. Not at all. Thorin would see Gandalfs obvious death more as a kind of collateral damage. He died to save the cause. There's no such bond between Gandalf and the company (except Bilbo) like his bond with the Fellowship. Especially his relationship with Thorin is more a business one than his long time friendship with Aragorn. Just compare Gandalfs several AUJ returns with his several LOTR returns and the reactions. A huuuuge difference. In the end there's a big difference between a company and a fellowship but that's another topic I guess.
"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."
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MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea
Jun 23 2014, 6:07pm
Post #7 of 7
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Thorin would want revenge unlike Aragorn, Bilbo would probably be more shocked than sad. Frodo's relationship with Gandalf seemed more personal than Bilbo's.
The flames of war are upon you..
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