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Salmacis81
Tol Eressea
Jun 19 2014, 7:54pm
Post #1 of 22
(1145 views)
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So, who should have the honor of killing Azog?
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I think that a lot of people probably want to see Thorin do the deed so he can get revenge for the killing of Thror and for the fight at the pine trees. This is kind of what I'm expecting to happen, since Jackson has gone and created this bitter rivalry between the two of them.
Me personally, I'd rather see Dain get to do the deed, because in my mind that would almost justify the inclusion of Azog in these films (of which I have been extremely critical of as most of you know). I feel that Dain needs something to endear him to the audience, instead of just swooping in at the last minute and becoming King under the Mountain. What better way to make Dain look "kingly" than to allow him to do what he was supposed to have done at the Battle of Azanulbizar? Yes, it's 140 years too late, but better late than never; I'd hate to see Dain's big moment completely erased from the story.
What do you think? Thorin or Dain?
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Elessar
Valinor
Jun 19 2014, 8:04pm
Post #2 of 22
(833 views)
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Is fine with me. I think either option work really well and I agree with Dain not being introduced until now it makes some sense to have him do the deed. I do hope they stick to Bolg getting killed by Beorn. That's the one I don't want to see any wiggle room on.
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J Pierpont Flathead
Rivendell
Jun 19 2014, 8:30pm
Post #3 of 22
(799 views)
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A gang of book fans should be given a cameo to do it - Monty Python style.
If not, just have Legolas do it right after he shoots down "Schmaug."
Now his life is full of wonder
But his heart still knows some fear
Of a simple thing he cannot comprehend
Why they try to tear the mountains down
To bring in a couple more
More people, more scars upon the land
(This post was edited by J Pierpont Flathead on Jun 19 2014, 8:30pm)
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Name
Rohan
Jun 19 2014, 8:39pm
Post #4 of 22
(797 views)
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Would really work if Jackson wants the audience to pity Thorin. By this time in the story Thorin has casted Bilbo out and is going nuts. Really at a major low. Having this "new" Thorin face Azog again and fail would really work IMO. So then he can get his "redemption" on his deathbed later. Make the audience hate him until the very end. That's how I'd do it.
How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?
"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"
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Hanzkaz
Rohan
Jun 19 2014, 8:44pm
Post #5 of 22
(778 views)
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Agreed. Dain should be the one.
[In reply to]
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It should be his 'hero moment' like Éomer's Charge of the Rohirrim.
I know some people want Thorin to have his 'revenge', but I think the message of the story is that other things are of greater value. All his desires end up being accomplished through others, and only at the end does he realise what is truly valuable. Perhaps a scene of him getting mortally wounded protecting Bilbo during the battle could show his 'redemption', especially after their previous parting.
___________________________________________________
From the makers of 'The Lord of the Rings' comes the sequel to Peter Jackson's Hobbit Trilogy -
'The War in the North, Part I : The Sword in the Tomb'.
(This post was edited by Hanzkaz on Jun 19 2014, 8:48pm)
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Arannir
Valinor
Jun 19 2014, 8:55pm
Post #6 of 22
(770 views)
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Storytelling-wise it would be stronger to have Dain do it and have Thorin broken that way before his own death.
And if that helps some of those disliking his inclusion, all the better :)
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 19 2014, 9:04pm
Post #7 of 22
(794 views)
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Storytelling-wise it would be stronger to have Dain do it and have Thorin broken that way before his own death.
And if that helps some of those disliking his inclusion, all the better :)
I must disagree. In terms of the film-story, it would be more logical to have Thorin kill Azog in the sight of Bolg, who then mortally wounds Thorin in turn. There is one good reason to allow Dain to end Azog--it establishes his own right to succeed Thorin (plus, it complements the events of Tolkien's legendarium).
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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TheSexyBeard
Lorien
Jun 19 2014, 9:54pm
Post #8 of 22
(713 views)
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I agree with you pretty much 100% that Dain should be the one. It would make Dain appear much more worthy of becoming King for the audience. I can picture Thorin and Azog facing off but with Thorin being wounded and Dain arrives to "save" him. Maybe let Thorin kill Azog's warg to give him something to defeat.
I'm hoping Beorn kills Bolg too.
Yes, my username is terrible.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jun 19 2014, 10:03pm
Post #9 of 22
(723 views)
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I'm wondering how they will introduce Dain...
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I know he doesn't appear in the book until the battle but he is mentioned. In the films we've heard nothing of him (at least, I can't think of anything) since the beginning of AUJ. What you suggest would give him much more of a presence.
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joec_34
Rivendell
Jun 19 2014, 11:16pm
Post #10 of 22
(702 views)
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Dain, after failing to make it across the battlefield to aid Thorin
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I want to see Thorin locked in an epic battle with Azog, and when it is clear that Thorin gains the upper hand, Bolg joins the fight and mortally wounds Thorin. Meanwhile, Dain and Beorn anticipate Bolg's attack and struggle to cross the battlefield to defend Thorin. They get there just too late, but engage the Orcs. Dain kills Azog; Beorn kills Bolg. Everyone is a hero, and Thorin is dead.
"Happy painting and God bless, my friend." - Bob Ross
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Jun 19 2014, 11:51pm
Post #11 of 22
(724 views)
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Phillipa SAID.."Movie 3 will be as CANON as possible..."
[In reply to]
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What the Mind can conceive
IT can Achieve NOW,
in Film....
PJ WILL do us
Justice...
Bomby
feels
it, in
his..
Bones
(This post was edited by Bombadil on Jun 19 2014, 11:52pm)
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J Pierpont Flathead
Rivendell
Jun 20 2014, 1:24am
Post #13 of 22
(663 views)
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""Movie 3 will be as CANON as possible"
That's an interesting quote. Source?
The only thing is "...as possible..." makes it a qualified and highly suspect. It would be "as CANON as possible" in whose opinion and judgement? Hers, no doubt. That cold be a LOT different than rabid book fans.
Now his life is full of wonder
But his heart still knows some fear
Of a simple thing he cannot comprehend
Why they try to tear the mountains down
To bring in a couple more
More people, more scars upon the land
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Jun 20 2014, 2:01am
Post #14 of 22
(658 views)
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""Rabid Book Fans"... try a littl' OLD Toby"
[In reply to]
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IT will settle your Nerves"
Trust Bomby
(...who lives in
....COLORADO?)
Bomby hearzz there are
"Bunny SledRides"
over Snow
here,
TOO?
"Reporting' in Live"
THAT Enigma
Known
azz
YOUR
Bomby
"Lighten UP, Itzz ONLY...............a Movie?"
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J Pierpont Flathead
Rivendell
Jun 20 2014, 2:18am
Post #15 of 22
(639 views)
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I don't have a clue what you just said, sorry. It's like you're speaking in code and I don't have a decryption device.
Can you give me a pointer to Boyen's quote? I'm interesting in reading the article.
Now his life is full of wonder
But his heart still knows some fear
Of a simple thing he cannot comprehend
Why they try to tear the mountains down
To bring in a couple more
More people, more scars upon the land
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 20 2014, 2:52am
Post #16 of 22
(644 views)
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Phillipa SAID.."Movie 3 will be as CANON as possible..."
I wonder if that means that we will see talking Ravens taking a message to the Iron Hills. We could see Dain receive Thorin's call for aid and also watch him march from the Iron Hills with his 500+ Dwarven troops.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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Arannir
Valinor
Jun 20 2014, 7:25am
Post #17 of 22
(599 views)
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... still wondering whether the meeting Thorin had come from when he arrived at Bag-end might be the prologue of Bot5A.
Always thought that in such a meeting Dain could be introduced, the importance of the Arkenstone underlined, Thorin's character supported and the whole quest revisited... all prologues of the continuing movies in PJ's Middle-earth saga have thus far done that type of "re-telling" and reminding of the story without actually doing a "last time in Middle-earth" thing.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Jun 20 2014, 7:58am
Post #18 of 22
(598 views)
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Phillipa's Quote was from last Fall...
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during the many Press Junkets...
I think it... was during the LA or Berlin Premier
but not sure.
The Reference to "OLD TOBY" is
Gandy telling Raddy to Calm down.
Which is what
a few here
might need to do.
PJ isn't
About to LET
Anyone down.
He has too much "Riding on this FINAL film".
Trying to Find Fault
..with the Final Film?
PRIOR to it release,
.....makes no sense.
Bomby Fully Expects to
Be
Blown away by this Film.
BUT, IT's Not the End of the World
If you ARE... disappointed..
But PLEASE go into the Theater
Expecting IT... to be Great
.... , , ,
And IT WILL be!
Bomby
Believes IT will
BE.
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Jun 20 2014, 8:02am
Post #19 of 22
(600 views)
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Sorry that Phillipa's Quote is Scambled ..since
[In reply to]
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Bomby writes in Flat Mode.
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Michelle Johnston
Rohan
Jun 20 2014, 1:17pm
Post #20 of 22
(577 views)
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If we look at this from the inside out the challenges of adaption:-
1) Book Dain appears right at the end of the movie and just becomes KUTM way to weak.
2) Azog is killed off in the appendices no traction there.
3) Bolgs in Beorns in and Thorin dies easy to build story around all three but what does Dain do.
Solution
Keep Azog alive and allow Dain to kill him at the BOTFA rather than the BOA.
Whats changed since that rational is Azog was built into the first third of the Trilogy to build an AUJ climax and then put back in charge of DG army as soon as DOS gets underweigh.
So would not be surprised to see Azog killed by Dain.
PS The idea of a prologue which reboots the story from the Dwarves nation point of view and introduces Dain would be quite wonderful for deep fans and re capitulate for the casual fans who just want to keep up and be reminded of what the essentials of the story are like it!.
My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.
(This post was edited by Michelle Johnston on Jun 20 2014, 1:19pm)
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J Pierpont Flathead
Rivendell
Jun 20 2014, 4:08pm
Post #21 of 22
(516 views)
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But PLEASE go into the Theater Expecting IT to be Great, And IT WILL be!
I do try. It hasn't worked out with the first two films. Not like it did with LOTR which I can still watch endlessly. The Hobbit - not really. It's a little more like going in for a medical procedure. You know you have to go, and you're glad you did, and you feel better at the end because there is relief, but not exactly because you enjoyed being there the whole time.
Now his life is full of wonder
But his heart still knows some fear
Of a simple thing he cannot comprehend
Why they try to tear the mountains down
To bring in a couple more
More people, more scars upon the land
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