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StevenUmbrello
Bree
Jun 14 2014, 6:21pm
Post #1 of 23
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Shadow of Mordor: Wraith Identity
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Ok lets begin. We all know, and are excited for, the release of Middle-Earth Shadow of Mordor on Oct.7. I watched the 2 hour live stream on twitch from Monolith productions and discussed all the aspects of the game. Although I badgered them a lot they wouldn't relent and tell us the identity of the wraith. Although they said that the wraiths identity is important both in the games story and the larger literary canon, they did not give any specific hints. They said that the wraiths identity is mentioned in the LoTR and especially in the appendices. Now, it seems that the Black Hand kills Talion and his family at the Black Gates, which he guards. I believe that this is where the wraith resided and possessed him to save his life. We know that the wraith HATES Sauron. Now I can only think of 3 people. Elendil, Isildur and Gil-Galad. The former and the Later died in Morder (correct me if I'm wrong). But many say its Isildur. Im not saying that wraiths are bound to a specific geographical location, we know they are not, but I'm wondering what the wraith was doing there at that time. Also, creators say that the wraith is so powerful that he presents a very serious threat to Sauron, like if Galadriel were to have possessed the One ring or if Gandalf possessed it!
So who do you think the wraith is?
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Steven Umbrello is the owner and curator of The Leather Library blog. It is a site which is dedicated to Philosophy, Literature (especially Tolkien), and the Finer things in life.
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheBBCorps
Blog: theleatherlibraryblog.com
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 14 2014, 11:04pm
Post #2 of 23
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Are you sure that the Wraith isn't supposed to be one of the Nine?
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I haven't seen all of the promotional material, but I assumed that the Wraith was one of the Nazgul.
Shouldn't this be in Gaming & Collecting?
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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StevenUmbrello
Bree
Jun 14 2014, 11:08pm
Post #3 of 23
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it is not one of the Nazgul. This is a new wraith, maybe a lesser wraith, that is an antagonist to Sauron.
Main: General discussion of Tolkien, LOTR and The Hobbit literary and movie related topics: news, opinions, rumours, games** and quizzes!
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Steven Umbrello is the owner and curator of The Leather Library blog. It is a site which is dedicated to Philosophy, Literature (especially Tolkien), and the Finer things in life.
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheBBCorps
Blog: theleatherlibraryblog.com
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 14 2014, 11:35pm
Post #4 of 23
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Was anyone other than Frodo documented in the canon/legendarium as having been killed by a Morgul-blade? That seems to be the surest way to become a lesser Wraith.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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StevenUmbrello
Bree
Jun 15 2014, 12:25am
Post #5 of 23
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however, Lesser wraith was just an idea. But as I said before the creators say that this wraith has the potential to seriously challenge Sauron.
I think that it has to be one of the three mentioned above (Elendil, Isildur or Gil-Galad). Which are all important characters in the Legendarium, all killed by Sauron (or his forces) and all mentioned either in the LoTR main text or appendices.
They all fit the criterion given to us by Monolith.
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Steven Umbrello is the owner and curator of The Leather Library blog. It is a site which is dedicated to Philosophy, Literature (especially Tolkien), and the Finer things in life.
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheBBCorps
Blog: theleatherlibraryblog.com
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Elessar
Valinor
Jun 15 2014, 4:00am
Post #6 of 23
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I'm looking forward to it. It is total fan fiction but it should be worth a buy to play around the Middle-earth sandbox.
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StevenUmbrello
Bree
Jun 15 2014, 4:04am
Post #7 of 23
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I am so excited. There are so many elements that make it promising. Firstly, that its using the mechanics from assassins creed and the Batman games from WB, secondly, the writer was a lead writer from Red Dead Redemption and finally, Talion is being played by Troy Baker. It seems that we have good reason that the game will be great!
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Steven Umbrello is the owner and curator of The Leather Library blog. It is a site which is dedicated to Philosophy, Literature (especially Tolkien), and the Finer things in life.
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheBBCorps
Blog: theleatherlibraryblog.com
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Earl
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jun 15 2014, 4:54am
Post #8 of 23
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It could be Earnur, the last King of Gondor who "disappeared"
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He met the channge of the Witch-king in Minas Morgul and was never seen again.
I knew this game was coming out but wasn't really following anything about it from not being a gamer, but the speculation is rather fun.
Some info about Earnur.
The Hobbit Soundtracks - Being an online archive of information concerning Howard Shore's score for The Hobbit films.
(This post was edited by Earl on Jun 15 2014, 4:55am)
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Elessar
Valinor
Jun 15 2014, 4:59am
Post #9 of 23
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I have enjoyed all of those game or most of all of them anyways so I have high hopes. I also like that this game evolves as you go through it and the baddies change based on how you play.
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AshNazg
Gondor
Jun 15 2014, 9:54am
Post #10 of 23
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I wonder whether the main character is going to turn out to be
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The Mouth of Sauron? He thinks he is doing it all for good but he gets used and by the end turns out evil. We know it can't end well because it has to lead into Lord of the Rings...
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StevenUmbrello
Bree
Jun 15 2014, 12:24pm
Post #11 of 23
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Cool idea, but it seems that he may have been in Sauron's service for a very long time, much before the game takes place. Also, the Mouth seems to have retained his physical form rather then becoming a wraith.
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Steven Umbrello is the owner and curator of The Leather Library blog. It is a site which is dedicated to Philosophy, Literature (especially Tolkien), and the Finer things in life.
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheBBCorps
Blog: theleatherlibraryblog.com
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StevenUmbrello
Bree
Jun 15 2014, 12:29pm
Post #12 of 23
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This is the best idea I have seen on any forum. This is a real legitimate idea. Earnur may very well be the wraith who has a dying hatred for Sauron. Here is some info from LOTRO, although this doesn't jive with the theory maybe this game changed the lore since I do not believe it is cannon
In The Lord of the Rings Online, it is revealed that the Witch-king corrupted Eärnur into a Wraith soon after he entered Minas Morgul. Now known as Mordirith, he became known as the False King, Steward of Angmar. In a twisted mockery of the Stewards who replaced him, Mordirith ruled in Carn Dûm on the behalf of the Witch-king, suppressing any form of rebellion from the few Men that had not allied with Angmar. He was killed during the War of the Ring by the Elf Maiden Narmeleth, who felled him with the sword Dunachar. He was thrown into the void of Angmar after his death. Narmeleth was mortally wounded in this battle and died a few minutes later.
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Steven Umbrello is the owner and curator of The Leather Library blog. It is a site which is dedicated to Philosophy, Literature (especially Tolkien), and the Finer things in life.
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheBBCorps
Blog: theleatherlibraryblog.com
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 15 2014, 12:50pm
Post #13 of 23
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By "lesser Wraith," Steve, I mean any Wraith other than the Nine, since the only methods of creating a Wraith that we know of are either through the use of one of Sauron's Rings of Power or through death by the poison of a Morgul-knife.
The theory of King Eärnur being the Wraith of Shadow of Mordor is an excellent suggestion. Mordirith and Narmeleth are creations from outside of Tolkien's legendarium, but if they work within the context of the game, so be it. It would not surprise me at all if these suggestions turn out to be correct.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jun 15 2014, 12:53pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 15 2014, 1:35pm
Post #14 of 23
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I'm sorry if I got your topic moved unnecessarily
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The lines between the forums can seem a bit blurry at times.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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StevenUmbrello
Bree
Jun 15 2014, 1:39pm
Post #15 of 23
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Who cares where it is really! its here, and we can discuss it!
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Steven Umbrello is the owner and curator of The Leather Library blog. It is a site which is dedicated to Philosophy, Literature (especially Tolkien), and the Finer things in life.
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheBBCorps
Blog: theleatherlibraryblog.com
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sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea
Jun 15 2014, 6:24pm
Post #16 of 23
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Any new news come out of E3 about this game? I didn't hear anything.
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demnation
Rohan
Jun 15 2014, 6:57pm
Post #17 of 23
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There is lots of hands on previews floating around out there. The game was playable for the first time at E3. All very positive, as well. This game seems to be making waves.
"It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule." Gandalf, "The Last Debate."
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StevenUmbrello
Bree
Jun 15 2014, 7:38pm
Post #18 of 23
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Yes, I have only heard great things about it. They have been showing off the game and really pushing the nemesis system which seems to be very detailed and interesting.
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Steven Umbrello is the owner and curator of The Leather Library blog. It is a site which is dedicated to Philosophy, Literature (especially Tolkien), and the Finer things in life.
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheBBCorps
Blog: theleatherlibraryblog.com
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flameofudun
Lorien
Jun 18 2014, 2:01am
Post #19 of 23
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Celembrimbor is a strong possibility
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I have been dwelling on the possibilities and celebrimbor sticks out.
Reasons I beleive this
- was wronged by sauron, betrayed with the ring situation in eregion
- his people were destroyed by sauron, and sauron mustered him, this he has a bone to pick
- knows the lore, history and secrets of the ring, which the devs have said is a major part of the game
- focus on hammers and anvils in wraith world (celebrimbor was a great smith)
- wraith looks elvish
-tolkien talks about how people might become wraiths if they died with an unfulfilled debt, and or stopped in guilt or dishonour. Celebrimbor's reason for being a wraith may be due to personal guilt on allowing such a great evil to enter the world, realizing saurons treachery and deception too late to prevent it, and maybe even the dishonour of treating with sauron
These are all my details. Look up celebrimbor on the lotr wikia for more details, if you wish.
''We are very dangerous over short distances''
-Gimli
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flameofudun
Lorien
Jun 18 2014, 2:08am
Post #20 of 23
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Actually, there are other ways.
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For instance
- in the silmarillion, a man(can't remember his name) was convinced to betray his lord (either beren or his father, it's been awhile) by sauron. He did this by promising his then dead wife. It states that he betrayed his companions, and allies, but sauron killed him nonetheless. It tells that after death he returned as a wraith, due to his dishonour. This he had the chance to warn his lord(beren I believe) I will read the silmarillion over next few days(that part) to get the details i forgot as a matter of fact.
-also we learn from the lead up for this game that talking became a wraith by being possessed by another wraith, and then created into a wraith himself from that.
''We are very dangerous over short distances''
-Gimli
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StevenUmbrello
Bree
Jun 18 2014, 2:14am
Post #21 of 23
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Thats an interesting analysis. I have yet to see on any other forums this character as a possibility. But you seem to have your facts down. I see this as a really possibility.
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Steven Umbrello is the owner and curator of The Leather Library blog. It is a site which is dedicated to Philosophy, Literature (especially Tolkien), and the Finer things in life.
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheBBCorps
Blog: theleatherlibraryblog.com
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 18 2014, 2:49pm
Post #22 of 23
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- in the silmarillion, a man(can't remember his name) was convinced to betray his lord (either beren or his father, it's been awhile) by sauron. He did this by promising his then dead wife. It states that he betrayed his companions, and allies, but sauron killed him nonetheless. It tells that after death he returned as a wraith, due to his dishonour. This he had the chance to warn his lord(beren I believe) I will read the silmarillion over next few days(that part) to get the details i forgot as a matter of fact.
According to the LotR Wiki, that would be Gorlim, son of Agrim, an Adan of the First House. He had a tragic story. Robert Foster records in The Compete Guide to Middle-earth, "Gorlim was one of the last twelve members of Barahir's outlaw band in Dorthonion. Captured by Sauron, Gorlim was tricked into betraying Barahir in return for being reunited with his beloved wife Eilinel. But the image of her which Gorlim saw was a phantom of Sauron's, and the reunion was in death."
Gorlim seems to be the only Wraith that Tolkien wrote of who wasn't created through a Ring or a Morgal-knife. However, his existence does set a precedent.
-also we learn from the lead up for this game that talking became a wraith by being possessed by another wraith, and then created into a wraith himself from that.
Talking? You mean Talion? I'm not sure that Talion is a Wraith, himself. Rather he is forced to share his body with the Wraith that has possessed it. However, he may be in danger of becoming a Wraith.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jun 18 2014, 2:59pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 18 2014, 3:08pm
Post #23 of 23
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That is an interesting possibility. All of the Wraiths that Tolkien wrote of were originally Men. Celembrimbor would set a precedent by being the first Elf known to become a Wraith. If this seems unlikely to me, it is only because to my mind Celembrimbor redeemed himself when he perceived Sauron's treachery and hid the Three from him. Yet, he might still have been consumed by guilt for being tricked by Sauron in the first place.
I do have to say that the Wraith does not look especially Elvish to me, but he might be a member of the Edain from the First Age (see Gorlim in the above post).
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jun 18 2014, 3:11pm)
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