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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Can someone please direct me to which one of Tolkien's works

The Grey Elf
Grey Havens

Jun 1 2014, 10:28pm

Post #1 of 12 (333 views)
Can someone please direct me to which one of Tolkien's works Can't Post

I can find the backstory that explains why there is bad blood between the dwarves and Thranduil and over certain white gems?

Thank you! Smile


Jun 2 2014, 12:43am

Post #2 of 12 (276 views)
Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

… it's pretty complicated, and spans over several works. Here are some great links, though. But first;

I assume what prompted this is this passage from The Hobbit:

So to the cave they dragged Thorin-not too gently, for they did not love dwarves, and thought he was an enemy. In ancient days they had had wars with some of the dwarves, whom they accused of stealing their treasure. It is only fair to say that the dwarves gave a different account, and said that they only took what was their due, for the elf-king had bargained with them to shape his raw gold and silver, and had afterwards refused to give them their pay. If the elf-king had a weakness it was for treasure, especially for silver and white gems; and though his hoard was rich, he was ever eager for more, since he had not yet as great a treasure as other elf-lords of old. His people neither mined nor worked metals or jewels, nor did they bother much with trade or with tilling the earth. All this was well known to every dwarf, though Thorin’s family had had nothing to do with the old quarrel I have spoken of.

Basically it goes back to the fact that The Hobbit was never supposed to be part of the legendarium. In this part, Thranduil is not the elven-king we're talking about (most of the time). It's actually talking about Elu Thingol, King of Doriah. But even that's not the beginning for the tension between elves and dwarves.

So, now to those links. I highly suggest reading them all, as they each give a piece of the puzzle.

This page provides various quotes, and as such is a good source. However, you have to read all the "answers" to get them, and they are not in order. Therefore, I would suggest coming back to it. Smile

Most of the links come from my absolute favorite blog, Ask Middle Earth:
Overview list of posts (the entire "elves and dwarves" tag is very good, if you have the time)

As for Thranduil specifically, I would read these posts (after the general ones):
Thranduil and Greed
Thranduil's Father and Past
Thranduil and Mordor
Thranduil and Erebor


I hope this helps! Smile

The Grey Elf
Grey Havens

Jun 2 2014, 1:43am

Post #3 of 12 (197 views)
Thank you kindly, Laineth! // [In reply to] Can't Post


Tol Eressea

Jun 2 2014, 2:29am

Post #4 of 12 (191 views)
Well said!! [In reply to] Can't Post

I just want to say that this post is most comprehensive and scholarly! Well done!!

Call me Rem, and remember, not all who ramble are lost...Uh...where was I?


Jun 2 2014, 2:38am

Post #5 of 12 (180 views)
*mods up* Great Collection! THANKS! // [In reply to] Can't Post


6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observation List - May 15, 2014


"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."

I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!

TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit

Lurker in the Mirk

Jun 2 2014, 3:36am

Post #6 of 12 (189 views)
Yeah, Thranduil is one complicated dude [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm going to read through these later, thanks! But a quick thought: I would say that Thranduil (I know the identity of the Elvenking was debated and not official until Tolkien published LotR but I will take it that it Thranduil from the get-go to simplify things a little Smile ) in TH the book is barely sketched out though the character moments pre-Battle were very tantalising, and as said, goes counter to his portrayal in earlier pages. The movie, though I love it, has gone the length to texture/layer/dimensionise Thranduil and set him up as the opposing king to Thorin's houseless rule but neglects to give him a background the general audience can get a handle on, which is a pity I think.

And coincidentally, I was asking a question in the TH forum where this info provided some relatedness and interest and add dimensions to the discussion, so double thanks to Grey Elf for putting up the Q and Laineth for the information.

Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV, V

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Jun 2 2014, 4:39am

Post #7 of 12 (164 views)
You're welcome! :) [In reply to] Can't Post



Jun 2 2014, 4:39am

Post #8 of 12 (167 views)
Aww... [In reply to] Can't Post

… thank you so much! Smile


Jun 2 2014, 4:40am

Post #9 of 12 (161 views)
Thank you! :) [In reply to] Can't Post



Jun 2 2014, 4:44am

Post #10 of 12 (182 views)
Yeah [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you!! Smile

I never really took notice of Thranduil before seeing DoS. Lee really made the character come to life for me. I know what you mean, though; we get a great hint with his facial expression (when the orc is going 'world will burn', etc) but not much detail. I really hope the DoS EE and the third film expand on it!

As for Thranduil in general, this is a really good article. I didn't link it before because it doesn't have much to do with the dwarves.

Thanks again. Smile

(This post was edited by Laineth on Jun 2 2014, 4:45am)


Jun 9 2014, 3:12pm

Post #11 of 12 (114 views)
Thanks Laineth [In reply to] Can't Post

Great links. By the way, the last one for Thranduil and Erebor is wonky.Wink


Jun 9 2014, 4:04pm

Post #12 of 12 (131 views)
You're welcome! :) [In reply to] Can't Post

Okay, let's try this again! Smile



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