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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Will there be Giant Spiders @ Dol Guldur?
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the 13th warrior
Bree

Apr 27 2014, 4:21pm

Post #26 of 39 (151 views)
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Re: Werewolves [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello Name, another issue between what's in the Tolkien source books and what's possible on film. In Silmarillion, Morgoth used the services of a king werewolf, who bred a master race of these creatures.Sauron the servant learned what might be possible with these monsters from his original Dark Lord boss Morgoth?? Morgoth also had a vampire witch henchwoman. PJ and co. probably gave all this some thought, they're so immersed in Tolkien at this pt. But I'd agree that werewolves will be a bit dicey to show on screen, might take people out of the picture--more Van Helsing than Middle Earth. Also you have to deal with issues like when do they change--in a full moon, like in our earth; what are the werewolf rules of Middle Earth?? Does a silver bullet or arrow still do the trick?

On the other hand, they'd be formidable foes--imagine Battle of 5 Armies with evil men/orc soldiers transforming into werewolves--would be appropriate if they fought Beorn, who's sort of a werewolf himself--or a bearwolf? were-bear? kinda boggles the mind. the battle should be wild: orcs, men, elves, dwarves, eagles, spiders, werewolves, beorn, a wizard and a hobbit--not to mention the dragon who precedes all this. i'm ready, how about you?

regards, the 13th warrior


Name
Rohan


Apr 27 2014, 4:34pm

Post #27 of 39 (147 views)
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Excellent points. [In reply to] Can't Post

Hmm, maybe I just never noticed this, but do Tolkien's werewolves change from man to wolf? For some reason, I've always thought they were kind of in a "permenent" wolf state. Not sure why, maybe I need to reread The Silmarillion Crazy.

How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?

"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"


the 13th warrior
Bree

Apr 27 2014, 8:47pm

Post #28 of 39 (138 views)
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Here's Reader's Digest Silmarillion Re: Werewolves and Vampires [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello Name, I decided to go into the Record Halls of Gondor, aka my Tolkien book collection, and check out this situation in the Silmarillion. It's all in the Of Beren and Luthien chapter. Way too complicated to go into too much detail--it's about Luthien and Huan the great noble Hound of Valinor coming to resuce Beren imprisoned by Sauron. There are battles between Huan and Draugluin, the king werewolf, and Sauron himself who turns into one. Huan defeats them and Sauron turns into a vampire and flies away. Then Luthien and Huan and Beren turn into werewolves and vampires to disguise themselves and escape.

Looks like one can shapeshift and take the form of these evil critters if one has the dark magic or sometimes the good guys fake out the bad guys by turning into werewolves/vampires--it all depends how detailed PJ is gonna go in utilizing them and or if he uses them at all. Again don't think it would be good idea to have vampires flying around cackling, grabbing people, while werewolves roar and wreck stuff. It might become the Battle of the 5 armies meets Van Helsing with Bram Stoker's Dracula.

Regards, the 13th Warrior, better grab a few crosses, wooden stakes, and wolfbane silver.


Name
Rohan


Apr 27 2014, 10:52pm

Post #29 of 39 (126 views)
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Ok! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for doing that, it has cleared things up for me a lot. I forgot that Sauron was able to turn into a werewolf. I guess I do need to pick up the Silmarillion again sometime......

How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?

"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Apr 28 2014, 6:42am

Post #30 of 39 (112 views)
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Sauron (and Thuringwethil) were able to change form, because they were Maiar... [In reply to] Can't Post

There is no evidence Carcharoth or Drauglin ever had any other form than werewolf...
Beren and Luthien disguised themselves as a bat and a werewolf using the pelts of the dead Thuringwethil and Drauglin, and Luthien's Elven magic to help with the illusion (she was half-Maiar, remember!)


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Apr 28 2014, 6:02pm

Post #31 of 39 (95 views)
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Middle-earth Werewolves [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Hmm, maybe I just never noticed this, but do Tolkien's werewolves change from man to wolf? For some reason, I've always thought they were kind of in a "permenent" wolf state. Not sure why, maybe I need to reread The Silmarillion Crazy.



Yes, Tolkien's Werewolves just have the form of huge Wargs. They are almost impossible to kill; their bodies can be slain, but the corpses disolve with the morning light and the spirits can take physical form again (possibly by seeking out and possessing the body of another Warg) and return another night.

Werewolves did not take a human form, but if Peter Jackson wanted to distinguish them from regular Wargs, he could give them a more bipedal beast-shape.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Name
Rohan


Apr 28 2014, 8:00pm

Post #32 of 39 (86 views)
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Ah, so my memory does serve me correctly! [In reply to] Can't Post

And while I think it would be very cool for PJ to use werewolves, I just honestly can't see it happening.

How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?

"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Apr 28 2014, 8:12pm

Post #33 of 39 (84 views)
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Maybe at Dol Guldur [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
And while I think it would be very cool for PJ to use werewolves, I just honestly can't see it happening.



I would limit them to a handful, or even only one, and probably only have them at Dol Guldur. However, it might be interesting instead to have one Werewolf commanding the Wargs at the Battle of Five Armies.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Name
Rohan


Apr 28 2014, 8:14pm

Post #34 of 39 (83 views)
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Maybe we could get some Beorn vs. Werewolf action....... [In reply to] Can't Post

 

How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?

"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Apr 28 2014, 8:25pm

Post #35 of 39 (79 views)
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Sure! Why not? [In reply to] Can't Post

There are hints that Beorn may show up at Dol Guldur, maybe to rescue Gandalf. I could see that. The Company of the Ring fought off a pack of Werewolves after their failed attempt to cross the Misty Mountains through the pass of the Redhorn Gate. Gandalf realized that they were not ordinary Wargs when no bodies of the dead wolves were found.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


NecromancerRising
Gondor


Apr 28 2014, 8:25pm

Post #36 of 39 (79 views)
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Has there been any rumour [In reply to] Can't Post

about the appearance/existence of a werewolf in the Hobbit movies?I do not recall any,althought i 'd find it cool to see someone in Dol Guldur.

"Obsession and narrow-mindness is the trend of the 2000's and synonyms to many Tolkien fanatics"


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Apr 28 2014, 8:29pm

Post #37 of 39 (79 views)
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Not really... [In reply to] Can't Post

This is just something that has come up in discussions of what new monsters we might see in these films that were not in The Lord of the Rings (or that Peter Jackson skipped over in the films, like the Barrow-wights). Vampires, Ogres and Wights have also come up in such threads.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Apr 28 2014, 8:30pm)


NecromancerRising
Gondor


Apr 28 2014, 9:09pm

Post #38 of 39 (80 views)
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Thanks Otaku. [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile

"Obsession and narrow-mindness is the trend of the 2000's and synonyms to many Tolkien fanatics"


Lissuin
Tol Eressea


May 2 2014, 8:44am

Post #39 of 39 (60 views)
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Meowyn Melonhelm deserved that cameow. [In reply to] Can't Post

Evil

Hey, I said it, but I know you were thinking it.

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