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Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Apr 25 2014, 8:00am
Post #26 of 46
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will probably an assortment of the Good Guys' allies: Eagles, Beorn and his critter crew
But then does that mean the goblin critter crew get lumped in with the one army?
Seems a bit lopesided to have 4:1 though. Would the general audience buy it that the Armies 1 to 3 needed No 5 to join in the fun to put the goblins in their places? But if No 5 is the orc horde from the Misties, wouldn't it seem like there is actually still 1 army of evil?
Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III
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Arannir
Valinor
Apr 25 2014, 8:04am
Post #27 of 46
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Different Agenda = Different Hosts
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So...
Elves
Men
Dwarves
Eagles/Gandalf (with potential support)
The Bad Guys
Agenda meaning the original reason to come to Erebor with a host.
“All good stories deserve embellishment."
Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."
(This post was edited by Arannir on Apr 25 2014, 8:04am)
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Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea
Apr 25 2014, 8:42am
Post #28 of 46
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There could even be some Eagle casualties. Might put to bed the 'Why didn't the Eagles fly the Ring to Mount Doom,' argument!
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Boromir Stark
Rivendell
Apr 25 2014, 9:14am
Post #29 of 46
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Radagast should not be involved. And I don't think he will be, as I suspect he will die at Dol Guldur.
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HeWhoArisesinMight
Rivendell
Apr 25 2014, 12:57pm
Post #30 of 46
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If that is the case, then it should be Battle of Six Armies
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Since you have to account for the Eagles some way.
Or maybe the Eagle's were Middle Earth's air force. 
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Boromir Stark
Rivendell
Apr 25 2014, 2:24pm
Post #31 of 46
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I don't think it will seem so lopsided in the Allies' favour...
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...when you consider that the bulk of their forces will be composed of the Mirkwood elves, as I believe Dain only brings 500 warriors with him, and the army of Men are basically what remains of Lake Town's military after Smaug's attack, which I daresay will not be much.
Meanwhile the enemy is made up of the legion(s?) gathered in Dol Guldur, and, if they follow the book, the goblins from the Misty Mountains seeking revenge for the Great Goblin's death. I would also assume that the army of Dol Guldur will bring the bats with them, which, until the Eagles arrive, will undoubtedly cause problems for the Allies, if only to draw the attention of the Elves and their archers away from the orc army proper.
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shadowdog
Rohan
Apr 25 2014, 3:32pm
Post #32 of 46
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Depends on where in the battle you are counting
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Started out as dwarves vs men and elves; then Dain showed up; then when orcs and wolves showed up it became the battle of two armies. Will others jumping at various times. At least that is the battle time line from what I remember of the book.
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MirielCelebel
Rivendell
Apr 25 2014, 7:50pm
Post #33 of 46
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Although Tolkien made the wargs a separate army, PJ has already made them the carriers of the orcs so they will not be their own army. The eagles might be, but PJ does not give them voices and personalities like Tolkien did. Personally I like whoever suggested Radagast and Beorn leading an army of animals. Can I also say that Beorn himself should count as an army? Anyway my money is on
1. Dwarves (Dain and Thorin's men)
2. Elves (Mirkwood not Rivendell, as Elrond and Galadriel will be or should be featured in the battle at Dol Guldur)
3. Orcs/wargs (led by Azog and Bolg)
4. Men (led by Bard-who BETTER kill Smaug before this debacle does down because the dragon was never part of the BOFA)
5. Animals, eagles, Radagast (possibly), and Beorn (who will rock the socks of the whole film if it's done right)
"The Road goes ever on..."
Writing Bliss
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Darkstone
Immortal
Apr 25 2014, 7:56pm
Post #34 of 46
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If you count the bear army:
"Some say that he is a bear descended from the great and ancient bears of the mountains that lived there before the giants came.
-Queer Lodgings
So:
1. Goblins
2. Wargs
3. Men
4. Dwarves
5. Elves
6. Eagles
7. Bears
One is tempted to add Hobbits and say Battle of the Eight Armies (BOA), but Bilbo is hardly the one-person-army that Beorn is.
******************************************
https://www.facebook.com/slatesforsarah
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Snowghost77
Lorien
Apr 25 2014, 8:23pm
Post #35 of 46
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I think some forget that in Tolkien canon, the wild wolves...wargs if you will, were sentient beings who spoke just as we do. In my opinion that would make them an army, whether or not Jackson views them as such is another matter entirely. Based on the movies, it seems Jackson took the more feral approach to the wolves, but who knows?
The path of the Warrior is paved in blood, sweat, tears and ultimately death. He weeps for the fallen, bleeds for the cause, and sweats till he dies.
In memory of operation FALLEN ANGEL and the mighty Heroes of SEAL team 6, the PJ's, SOCOM aviation, and all those who fell in the Tangi Valley.
- Task force Warrior will not forget you
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Snowghost77
Lorien
Apr 25 2014, 8:29pm
Post #36 of 46
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I like the idea of a troll army...
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It would seem hopeless, then gandalf will show up to help save the day. seeing Beorn battle trolls would be killer as well, and of course a contingent of eagles to shred their faces off.
The path of the Warrior is paved in blood, sweat, tears and ultimately death. He weeps for the fallen, bleeds for the cause, and sweats till he dies.
In memory of operation FALLEN ANGEL and the mighty Heroes of SEAL team 6, the PJ's, SOCOM aviation, and all those who fell in the Tangi Valley.
- Task force Warrior will not forget you
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Salmacis81
Tol Eressea
Apr 25 2014, 11:27pm
Post #37 of 46
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the dragon was never part of the BOFA
...neither was Azog. Nor did Sauron have anything to do with it, for that matter.
This is not to say that I want Smaug to take part in the battle, mind you. Just that this battle is already shaping up to be completely different from Tolkien's account of the event.
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Name
Rohan
Apr 25 2014, 11:50pm
Post #38 of 46
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Tolkien's account on the event isn't that great in the first place.
But we barely have any solid information yet. What makes you say it will be so different?
How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?
"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"
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Salmacis81
Tol Eressea
Apr 26 2014, 12:08am
Post #39 of 46
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...the Orcs motivation for descending on the mountain is completely different from what it was in the books, is it not?
In the book, the Orcs do not go to the mountain until word reaches their ears of Smaug's demise. And Sauron doesn't have anything to do with the Orcs attacking in the book; they do it of their own accord, because they want revenge for the killing of the Great Goblin (and there is some implication that Bolg wants revenge on the Dwarves for killing Azog all those many years ago at the Battle of Azanulbizar). And there is no direct link between Sauron and Smaug in the book, only that Gandalf fears Sauron might try to utilize him somehow.
In the films, the Orcs are already marching on the mountain before the demise of Smaug, and coming from Dol Guldur instead of the Misty Mountains. And Sauron is directing the attack, unlike in the book. And Azog is alive and leading the armies, instead of Bolg.
And then there is this whole Bolg/Legolas set-up, which I am hoping will not result in Legolas killing Bolg instead of Beorn killing him. And there is the Tauriel/Kili dynamic, which will probably be resolved during or after battle, somehow. But we will see.
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Yngwulff
Gondor
Apr 26 2014, 2:00am
Post #40 of 46
(315 views)
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OH MY!
“I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”
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Salmacis81
Tol Eressea
Apr 26 2014, 2:06am
Post #41 of 46
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Not sure what this is supposed to mean...
(This post was edited by Salmacis81 on Apr 26 2014, 2:11am)
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Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Apr 26 2014, 7:35am
Post #42 of 46
(291 views)
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Yeah, when we see the spectacle of the opposing forces that is
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I was thinking about the general audience, who would probably think the good guys having 4 armies sound like a shoo-in for VICTOR OF THE BATTLE. So it will be interesting to see what, if any, new things 9visuals/numbers/bad guys) PJ throws in to even that keel. We've seen it with the Battle of the Pelennor Fields.
Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Apr 26 2014, 12:32pm
Post #43 of 46
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Presumably, in the films the Orcs were sent to Erebor to stop the Dwarves in order to earn Smaug's gratitude and aid in Sauron's plans for the North. Possibly, also to bring the Goblins of the Misty Mountains and Grey Mountains directly under Sauron's control. Of course, the Orcs arrive too late to stop Thorin.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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Name
Rohan
Apr 26 2014, 2:33pm
Post #44 of 46
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1 men
2 dwarves
3 elves
4 orcs
5 goblins
Or
1 men
2 dwarves
3 elves
4 orcs/bad guys
5 eagles
These are the only logical combinations in my mind. And I find it hard to think of Jackson not having the eagles as another army. I think even in the cartoon Hobbit movie the eagles were considered the 5th army.
How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?
"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"
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Faramir5
Bree
Apr 26 2014, 4:20pm
Post #45 of 46
(265 views)
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I'm guessing Goblins will be included. Just like in the book, the Goblin King was killed. I suppose they will want revenge.
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Escapist
Gondor
Apr 26 2014, 4:24pm
Post #46 of 46
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1. Dwarves
2. Men
3. Elves (may be considered to be a unified army alongside men)
4. Goblins
5. Eagles
6. Wargs (may be considered "steeds" for Goblins)
7. Bats (may be considered part of the "Goblin" army)
If all the world's a stage then who's writing the script?
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