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The Grey Elf
Grey Havens
Apr 20 2014, 2:44pm
Post #1 of 10
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Bard, Smaug's death and intra-species conflicts in Middle-earth
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As someone with spotty familiarity with The Unfinished Tales and none of Tolkien's other works outside of LOTR and The Hobbit, I am unaware of any instances of warring in Middle-earth that doesn't take place between different species/cultures. Are there?
I came to this question in a roundabout way. As much has been made of the notion that a single arrow could kill Smaug, I've been pondering how movie Bard may accomplish this, beyond accurate aim. Since we know Laketown will be burning, what if he lit the black arrow with dragon fire and sunk it into Smaug's chest that way? (True, the arrow appears to be entirely metal but assuming dragon flames have properties greater than normal fire, I would argue it might be possible.) This, in turn, made me wonder if dragons were vulnerable to the fire of their own kind and if they ever battled amongst themselves which, let's face it, does seem like a typically anti-social and dragony thing to do ;-) Finally, this thought led me to realizing that the battles of Middle-earth, as far as I knew, seem to be very clearly drawn between species.
Have I missed anything from other Tolkien works re dragon lore and intra-species conflicts? And what do you think about my hypothetical re Bard and his kill shot?
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Apr 20 2014, 3:07pm
Post #2 of 10
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I am not aware of any particular conflict between different clans of Dwarves, and Hobbits are pretty peaceful guys; but, both Elves and Men have had a number of disputes within their own ranks. The chief incident involving Elves was the Kinslaying at Alqualonde, when the Teleri refused to give ships to the Noldor, and Feanor decided to take them by force. This was the first recorded slaying of Elf by Elf.
Men have a long history of warring among themselves. The Numenoreans started out as explorers, but became conquerors, partly because of the influence of Sauron. The Woses were long hunted as vermin by more sophisticated Men. The Dunlendings and the Rohirrim have long warred over territory. Gondor has fought numerous wars with Easterlings and Men of the South.
The Black Arrow of the book was a normal longbow arrow; although possibly forged by Dwarves in Erebor. The windlance arrow is essentially a ballista bolt, in other words, a crossbow bolt scaled to a siege weapon. It would be much thicker and heavier than a normal arrow and would deal much more damage if delivered with force. However, Bard should not be able to fire this arrow from his longbow, but should need the larger windlance to launch it.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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Elarie
Grey Havens
Apr 20 2014, 4:16pm
Post #3 of 10
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There is a line in the Silmarillion about the Last Alliance
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against Sauron, at the end of the Second Age, that says some of each kind, even birds and beasts, fought on either side, except for the elves.
Hop to it, Radagast, we've got dark powers to sleigh.
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The Grey Elf
Grey Havens
Apr 20 2014, 4:51pm
Post #4 of 10
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I also wonder if there was a historical precedent for Morgoth
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or other evil to deploy a dragon as part of their forces. Otherwise, how is it that Gandalf's concerns so readily leaped to Smaug being enlisted? For that matter, what keeps dragons from marauding all over Middle-earth for tasty delicacies? What confines them to seemingly isolated areas, such as the Withered Heath?
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Elarie
Grey Havens
Apr 20 2014, 5:38pm
Post #5 of 10
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Morgoth created the dragons and used them as weapons
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His fortress was in the far north, so that seems to be the dragons' home, but why they don't go farther south more often is never explained as far as I know. Once they get a treasure hoard, they stay there and guard it, so maybe most of them already have treasure to guard and that's why they don't travel more often? Just guessing.
Hop to it, Radagast, we've got dark powers to sleigh.
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The Grey Elf
Grey Havens
Apr 20 2014, 5:45pm
Post #6 of 10
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Thanks for the factoids, Elarie!
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Now things are starting to add up for me. 
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Apr 20 2014, 7:27pm
Post #7 of 10
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There were Men in Sauron's army at Minas Tirith and the Black Gate.//
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NottaSackville
Valinor
Apr 21 2014, 12:03pm
Post #10 of 10
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Those Nasty Noldor and their Kinslaying
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Just expanding on Otaku's kinslaying point, there are three recorded cases of elf-on-elf violence:
http://tolkiengateway.net/...ing_(disambiguation)
Notta
 Happiness: money matters, but less than we think and not in the way that we think. Family is important and so are friends, while envy is toxic -- and so is excessive thinking. Beaches are optional. Trust is not. Neither is gratitude. - The Geography of Bliss by Eric Weiner as summarized by Lily Fairbairn. And a bit of the Hobbit reading thrown in never hurts. - NottaSackville
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D'oh! //
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