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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Smaug of War

IdrilofGondolin
Rohan

Apr 15 2014, 9:51pm

Post #1 of 16 (1090 views)
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The Smaug of War Can't Post

Just finished watching DOS and two lines of dialog struck me this time around. I thought I heard Balin say that Smaug could only be killed by a black arrow from a wind lance. The other was Smaug implying that he was going to lead the Orc army. So here is a thought:

Smaug destroys Laketown and goes back to lead the Orc army. Bard is able to kill him with a wind lance that survived the destruction of Dale. He succeeds where Girion failed using Girion's wind lance. There is a nice symmetry there. What do you think?


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Apr 15 2014, 9:53pm

Post #2 of 16 (864 views)
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I think that you are half-right [In reply to] Can't Post

Bard will kill Smaug with the windlance, but when Smaug attacks Lake-town. I don't expect to see the dragon at the Battle of Five Armies. That would just tick me off.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Apr 15 2014, 9:55pm)


book Gandalf
Rohan


Apr 15 2014, 9:59pm

Post #3 of 16 (868 views)
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no windlance [In reply to] Can't Post

 
bard will not kill smaug with that silly windlance it is a mcguffin

bard will use the windlance but hell miss or it'll be deflected, then hell use his bow and arrow to kill him, its totally set up for it. he is an ace with a bow and arrow, and he has never used a windlance ever!! ill bet money on it!

This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party.


flameofudun
Lorien

Apr 16 2014, 1:27am

Post #4 of 16 (749 views)
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My bet [In reply to] Can't Post

Is that he is about to use the wind lance but it is destroyed by smaug. IMO this is why peter didn't have Bain load the black arrow into the wind lance, so that way it wouldn't be destroyed, (from a directors perspective this is why, not a character's) thus, bard will then be forced to use his bow with the black arrow to take smaug down at laketown

''We are very dangerous over short distances''

-Gimli


droidsocket
Lorien

Apr 16 2014, 5:41am

Post #5 of 16 (705 views)
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Which? [In reply to] Can't Post

Which black arrow are we talking about? The movie universe has set up the black arrow as the huge iron spear that the wind lance launches. Are you suggesting the wood lance is destroyed and then Bard attempts to use his long bow to shoot that chunk of iron? I sure hope not. It would fly all of 8 feet before it hit the water.


Fleuz
Lorien


Apr 16 2014, 6:15am

Post #6 of 16 (692 views)
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Luke [In reply to] Can't Post

Evans once statet, that his bow is that large because it has to launch a serious package. Maybe this could be some kind of a hint... ;)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Apr 16 2014, 1:56pm

Post #7 of 16 (626 views)
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This sounds like a job for MythBusters [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Which black arrow are we talking about? The movie universe has set up the black arrow as the huge iron spear that the wind lance launches. Are you suggesting the wood lance is destroyed and then Bard attempts to use his long bow to shoot that chunk of iron? I sure hope not. It would fly all of 8 feet before it hit the water.



I'd love to see the MythBusters address this in an all-Hobbit episode of the show. However, I suspect that you're right.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


droidsocket
Lorien

Apr 16 2014, 2:27pm

Post #8 of 16 (621 views)
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Who needs mythbusters? [In reply to] Can't Post

Somebody grab their longbow and a iron fireplace poker and see if they can pierce a watermelon let alone a dragons hide.


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 16 2014, 4:24pm

Post #9 of 16 (589 views)
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Maybe just maybe [In reply to] Can't Post

the Black Arrow isn't as heavy as it looks? After all, we've never been told what exactly it's made out of. Maybe it's made out of something that's similar to mithril in that it's really strong but still doesn't weigh very much? Or for that matter, maybe it is iron but it's actually hollow on the inside to make it lighter?

It's a thought. Possibly a ridiculous thought, but still, a thought.

"So I will call upon Your name
And keep my eyes above the waves
When oceans rise
My soul will rest in Your embrace
For I am Yours and You are mine"
--Hillsong United


Ilaras
The Shire


Apr 17 2014, 12:00am

Post #10 of 16 (548 views)
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uhg [In reply to] Can't Post

Really hoping this is exactly what does not happen (smaug leads orcs)


(This post was edited by Ilaras on Apr 17 2014, 12:01am)


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Apr 17 2014, 2:01am

Post #11 of 16 (547 views)
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but that would mean Bard has to know about smaug's secret spot [In reply to] Can't Post

it seems to me they aren't going to go with the talking sparrow… Perhaps Bard does hit smaug with the windlance but it doesn't hit smaug's secret spot and it just really hurts him and they think he's dead but he comes back at the BOT5A. I don't know it just seems that their setting up smaug for the BOT5A, "unleash a weapon that will destroy everything before it", "your world will burn". I could be wrong and i kinda hope i am lol.

 photo 1bf768b4-0b33-420d-9c59-41ea3cf03def_zps1d44c4cf.jpg

(This post was edited by MouthofSauron on Apr 17 2014, 2:02am)


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Apr 17 2014, 6:10am

Post #12 of 16 (534 views)
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He does know. [In reply to] Can't Post

Bain is the one who tells the story to the dwarves. Obviously if he knows it his dad does. The thrush has done its knocking and isn't needed to talk to Bard. Bard knows about the missing scale and the dwarves left behind can bring the news of approaching armies to the Mountain. I doubt we're going to get talking ravens either, though I don't have a solid guess on why/how Dain will show up without them. I'm sure they'll find a way.

I wouldn't mind too much if they decided to have the Windlance fail and kill Smaug with a longbow but I doubt it. Everything that's been said in the movies and in interviews is all about the Black Arrow, and the movie version has to be fired from a Windlance, so I think we're stuck with it. However, I fully expect a large and dramatic "run through the flaming houses and dodge burning debris and dragon-flame to get the Black Arrow to the Windlance" sequence.

I'm just hoping for a nice long shot of the Master's statue going up like a torch. That would be quite satisfying. Evil

Also, I think the idea is that Sauron plans to use Smaug for the war, but the dwarves thwart that and between that and the attack on Dol Guldur, his plans are set back for a while - which is why we get 60 years of "peace" before LOTR begins.

Silverlode

"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dűm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."



(This post was edited by Silverlode on Apr 17 2014, 6:12am)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Apr 17 2014, 2:42pm

Post #13 of 16 (517 views)
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Ravens. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Bain is the one who tells the story to the dwarves. Obviously if he knows it his dad does. The thrush has done its knocking and isn't needed to talk to Bard. Bard knows about the missing scale and the dwarves left behind can bring the news of approaching armies to the Mountain. I doubt we're going to get talking ravens either, though I don't have a solid guess on why/how Dain will show up without them. I'm sure they'll find a way.



Yes, Bard already knows about the missing scale. I am hoping, though, for the appearance of the Ravens. At the same time, I suspect that you are right. Jackson plays fast and loose with matters of time and distance; it would not surpise me if Thorin sends one or more of his companions to the Iron Hills to enlist the aid of Dain.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


flameofudun
Lorien

Apr 18 2014, 1:46am

Post #14 of 16 (495 views)
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It could very well be made of the rare metal galvorn [In reply to] Can't Post

In the silmarillion, the elf eol first created this metal with the aid in his craft from the dwarves, who we can assume discovered how to make it.(assuming of course, that it is in fact an alloy, and not a pure substance such as mithril). It says both in the book and on the lotr wiki, that it is hard and sharp as dwarf steel, maybe even harder, and also lenient and malleable as well as supple. This could make it lighter as well, and with that on top of it being hollow, like someone suggested, then maybe with some adjustments from bard it could easily be made to pierce the dragons loose scale.

Here is the link as well: http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Galvorn

''We are very dangerous over short distances''

-Gimli


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Apr 18 2014, 6:50am

Post #15 of 16 (493 views)
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Not only that, but remember Luke Evans demonstrating.... [In reply to] Can't Post

how he used the "reverse" arm pull back technique to give great reach on his long bow at the Live Event last year? Surely the inference from that is that he needed to fire a large missile than a normal arrow??? Unsure


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Ż Victoria Monfort


Rembrethil
Tol Eressea


Apr 18 2014, 3:22pm

Post #16 of 16 (491 views)
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I don't know what they are going to do... [In reply to] Can't Post

But if they can pull off the look, I really won't question the physics. (Hey, it follows the book more closely that way.)

I guess I'm just lazy like that!!CrazyLaugh

Call me Rem, and remember, not all who ramble are lost...Uh...where was I?

 
 

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