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TORn Amateur Symposium
Bree
Apr 15 2014, 7:20am
Post #1 of 16
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TORn AMATEUR SYMPOSIUM Day Two - "A Musing on Elves, Dwarves, Archetypes and Favorite Characters" by Swordwhale
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Welcome to April 2014 TORn Amateur Symposium, the third TAS!
We are very pleased to present the next essay for TAS3:
Click here to read "A Musing on Elves, Dwarves, Archetypes and Favorite Characters" by Swordwhale
Abstract
An Elf and a Dwarf walk into a meade hall... and find out they have something in common. A musing on Elves, Hobbits, Dwarves, Archetypes and favorite characters, who we identify with, and how the Blond Guy With the Longbow got replaced by a short guy in an earflappy hat... or not.
To view an essay, please click on the link above.
Our authors have written essays and analyses that are concerned, in some way, with the legendarium of John Ronald Reuel Tolkien. These essays may be philosophic opinions, scientific theories, or analytical approaches to understanding or highlighting some facet of Tolkien's writings and world. These pieces are written with the goal of amateur scholarship at their core - thus inspiring our Symposium title. Authors may choose to include citations or footnotes, but they are by no means required. Keeping in mind the dual spirit of enjoyment and inquiry that we believe in (as much as we value cheer and song), and which is of paramount important to both the TAS team and our authors, we fully encourage discussion of the essays presented. We hope you enjoy it as much as we enjoy posting it. The TAS is open for discussion, and any comments, questions or thought you wish to share about this essay can be posted in this response to this thread.
We have quite a full schedule of essays - essays will posted every other day. The schedule can be found here.
So please, go forth and enjoy all of the works we have posted for this 2014 April Session. The entire TAS Team, (Elaen32, Brethil and DanielLB), is both delighted and proud to present the essays our TAS members have crafted, relating their interests and skills to the world of JRRT that we all love; a world most intricately crafted, and one that "takes hold of us, and never let's go."
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noWizardme
Half-elven
Apr 15 2014, 9:04am
Post #2 of 16
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'For fantasy is true, of course. It isn't factual, but it is true'
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Bravo Swordwhale (again)!
Whilst trying to avoid a spoiler for your piece, I think you've nailed one of the intriguing possibilities in fantasy fiction - that a reader can identify with a character who is in all superficial respects very different.
But I agree - it probably requires the storyteller to reveal enough of the character's err...character so that the audience can relate in that way, and not (or not only) in the way that young children relate to Batman/Power Rangers/Disney Princesses. In the immature version, it's about being powerful and popular or having cool superpowers (or a frilly ballgown, or both ). The mature version is more based on what is within.
I think that you're also right to bring up archetypes, though what a tangled area that is. For me, I'll go along with Ursula K LeGuin's idea of 'For fantasy is true, of course. It isn't factual, but it is true'* What she means is that elves and dragons aren't zoological or anthropological, but they are psychological. And sometimes you can see out world more clearly given a different world to stand upon.
Nice light touch in your essay too - 'Have you noticed the size of Bofur's mattock?'
* Why Are Americans Afraid of Dragons - Ursula K LeGuin 1974. First appeared PNLA Quarterly 38, Anthologised in The Language of the Night, Essays on Fantasy and Science Fiction, The Women's Press, 1989
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"… ever let your aim be to come at truth, not to conquer your opponent. So you never shall be at a loss in losing the argument, and gaining a new discovery.”
Arthur Martine
"nowimë I am in the West, Furincurunir to the Dwarves (or at least, to their best friend) and by other names in other lands. Mostly they just say 'Oh no it's him - look busy!' "
Or "Hold off! unhand me, grey-beard loon!"
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swordwhale
Tol Eressea
Apr 15 2014, 2:12pm
Post #3 of 16
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I remember reading that long ago...
Stories enlarge our world, and there are a lot of things I would not have attempted, except it looked so cool in the stories so I tried it (or, at least a version that worked in the real world).
"Judge me by my size, would you?" Max the Hobbit Husky.
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Elarie
Grey Havens
Apr 15 2014, 2:25pm
Post #4 of 16
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I really enjoyed it. And thank you especially for including the section on dwarf appearance. I've never understood the complaints about certain dwarves in the movie not looking "dwarfish" enough, and I found the same Norse Myth Wiki site while reading about dwarves and trying to figure out where the big noses and bulgy foreheads come from. As far as I can tell, they come from the same universe as elves that are 12 inches high - maybe it's some kind of inter-dimensional Victorian/Disney portal! 
Hop to it, Radagast, we've got dark powers to sleigh.
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Rembrethil
Tol Eressea
Apr 15 2014, 3:18pm
Post #5 of 16
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It was a thoroughly enjoyable read, filled with insight, humour, personal anecdote, and appreciation of the best aspects of fantasy. I really enjoy the train-of-thought style that gives everyone a peek at the gears turning within the brain and the natural progression of ideas.
I think you have eloquently stated your reasons for liking your favourite characters and captured the wonder and excitement you have found in LoTR and the Hobbit. It really resonates a chord with myself, as they are among some of my own favourite aspects and characters. You've said much of what I myself would like to have said, so Mod up!!!!
Call me Rem, and remember, not all who ramble are lost...Uh...where was I?
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Brethil
Half-elven
Apr 15 2014, 3:39pm
Post #6 of 16
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Your thoughts about bringing the archetypes forward really strike a chord with me Swordwhale. New life to ancient symbols. Wonderful! 
The Third TORn Amateur Symposium kicks off this Sunday, April 13th, in the Reading Room. Come and join us for Tolkien-inspired writings!
**And Rem, you are doing that CoH chapter. Don't forget. **
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elaen32
Gondor
Apr 15 2014, 9:06pm
Post #7 of 16
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Thanks for an interesting read Swordwhale
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I like your comparison of the " Magical Child" in Bofur, Legolas and Bilbo. Elsewhere in Tolkien's work, I guess other examples of this archetype might be Samwise Gamgee, Frodo and, possibly, Faramir and Tuor.
As for Disney- stereotyped dwarves..... I am very glad these archetypes weren't used in the Hobbit movies! It is interesting that the original Norse dwarves were not described as being short. I wonder how the short dwarf idea originated.....?
Is there a Tolkien topic that you have wanted to look into more deeply and write about your thoughts on it? If so, we'd like to hear from you for the next TORn Amateur Symposium- coming in April. Happy writing!
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simplyaven
Grey Havens
Apr 16 2014, 12:30am
Post #8 of 16
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This is an interesting read, for sure. As someone who has studied archetypes for so many years, I find it a good read. I may not necessarily agree all the time but it's written with humor and inspiration and I like this.
Middle earth recipes archive
I believe
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Apr 16 2014, 12:49am
Post #9 of 16
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Ditto everything Rem said. Thanks, Sword! //
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Khim
Bree
Apr 16 2014, 2:02am
Post #10 of 16
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I started reading Tolkien about a year before you, Swordwhale. His works have had a profound affect on me, and I consider myself among the blessed obsessed. Yet throughout the decades I have kept my Middle-earth journeys mostly to myself. My occasional participation on TORn has been a bit of an apparition.
I enjoyed your post, but I'm afraid I can't relate it to myself, meaning having a favorite character, or one that I see myself in. I have never identified with anyone in particular. I believe I have identified with the relationships between characters, and the themes of friendship, sacrifice, and service to a greater good. Perhaps I have been trying to emulate the aspects of those characters that I would wish to be like, rather than seeing myself in a specific one. I may never be an Aragorn, or Frodo, or Sam, but I think it is the striving, not the expectation of success or reward that is Tolkien's point.
P.S. I hesitate to admit it, but if there's a fictional character that I relate to it's probably Lister, from the BBC SF comedy Red Dwarf :)
I am Khim akin to Mim.
(This post was edited by Khim on Apr 16 2014, 2:05am)
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FrogmortonJustice65
Lorien
Apr 16 2014, 4:28am
Post #11 of 16
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Very fun to read, your humorous, lighthearted tone makes the pages fly even though you are handling thematically significant topics!
I would definitely agree that Legolas and Bofur are good examples of this archetype, but it might be worth mentioning that the Hobbits themselves (particularly Bilbo and Pippin as you mentioned, but also Sam, who dreams of meeting the elves) are great examples of the "Magical Child" archetype. The first few chapters of FOTR where they are all experiencing the world beyond the Shire for the first time is a great example of this. The Hobbits are newcomers to the wider world (some would say naieve or ignorant!) and, in my opinion, are meant to be stand-ins for the reader, experiencing the awe and *magic* (for lack of a better word) of Middle Earth's locales and inhabitants for the first time.
Keep up the good work!
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Kim
Valinor
Apr 16 2014, 5:12am
Post #12 of 16
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That was a really fun read, thanks!
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I love the connection you made with Legolas and Bofur.
And of course, this:
It was Majestic. Majesticer. Majesticest.
"Jagatud rõõm on topelt rõõm - a shared joy is a double joy". ~Estonian saying
“As such, you will address His Majesty as His Majesty, the Lord of Silver Fountains, the King of Carven Stone, the King Beneath the Mountain, the Lion of Erebor, the High King of the Dwarves, the True Treasure of Erebor, the Face that Launched 10,000 Sighs, or Thorin the Majestic..."
http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=719226;sb=post_time;so=DESC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed
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demnation
Rohan
Apr 16 2014, 5:51am
Post #13 of 16
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A funny as well! And you've given me a new appreciation for Legolas, who I often find a bit stuffy. So thanks for that! And as for identifying with characters, I can't say I identify with anyone in Tolkien's work, if we take identify to mean that we see ourselves in the characters. What I do do is empathize, and it helps that Tolkien is good at getting us to feel things about his characters. I have so many thoughts and feeling about my two favorites (Frodo and Eowyn) that maybe I am identifying with them and don't even realize it.
"It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule." Gandalf, "The Last Debate."
(This post was edited by demnation on Apr 16 2014, 5:52am)
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nandorin elf
Bree
Apr 16 2014, 11:14pm
Post #15 of 16
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Thanks for the great read, Swordwhale. It was very entertaining and informative, and it made me laugh.
Like you, I'm elf-centric. I always liked Legolas for his upbeat attitude, humor, sticking with his friends through the hard stuff. As you pointed out, the things I like about him are there in Bofur too. I guess that's why I love Bofur so much.
I've never really thought about what character I identify with. I suppose I would be some combination of Legolas and Bilbo, generally upbeat but content to just sit around and think in Rivendell.
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ajgetway
The Shire
Apr 21 2014, 4:26pm
Post #16 of 16
(857 views)
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I loved this essay! The tone was great and you handled the subject matter very well. I loved all the little points you brought up, tying your views and opinions in with research.
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Such a pleasure to read!
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