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Would be interesting

EomundDaughter
Lorien

Apr 9 2014, 7:10pm

Post #1 of 23 (486 views)
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Would be interesting Can't Post

for those of us who actually didn't start reading Tolkien until after some of the first movies were made to discuss the difference reading the books made in our enjoying rewatching the movies.again...
..


Brethil
Half-elven


Apr 9 2014, 10:18pm

Post #2 of 23 (346 views)
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I am a book-firster myself E-D [In reply to] Can't Post

But what was your experience? Would be interested to hear it. Did the texts enhance the films, or leave you missing things, or both?

Have an idea relating to the world of JRR Tolkien that you would like to write about? If so, the Third TORn Amateur Symposium will be running in the Reading Room April, 2014. *The Call for Submissions is up*!





**And Rem, you are doing that CoH chapter. Don't forget. **


CuriousG
Half-elven


Apr 9 2014, 11:09pm

Post #3 of 23 (358 views)
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What did you think of Bombadil? [In reply to] Can't Post

Movie-firsters usually have a very different feeling about him than book-firsters. (As a book-firster, I just accept him as part of the story, and I like how the Ring has no power over him, and how he rescues Frodo & Co twice.)


IdrilofGondolin
Rohan

Apr 10 2014, 2:42pm

Post #4 of 23 (309 views)
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Disappointment? [In reply to] Can't Post

I am a book-firster. I think movie-firsters might be disappointed that their favorite scenes do not appear in the book. I am thinking about Gandalf's escape from Orthanc and the length of Helm's Deep. The Saruman/Gandalf wizard's duel would be another one.


EomundDaughter
Lorien

Apr 10 2014, 3:05pm

Post #5 of 23 (303 views)
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Vaguely remember being shown [In reply to] Can't Post

a copy of LOTR as a child and only read a chapter...then the big event of PJs first film and I was enthralled...got a bio of Tolkien, book of Tolkiens letters, and read Hobbit and read LOTR. Tried reading Sil and really couldn't get through it but plan to try again...
Honestly, the bio of Prof Tolkien was what really pulled me in to his works....what would it have been like to be a student in his classroom!!
Enjoyment of the films increased 100%....consider them the event of my lifetime!


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 10 2014, 4:11pm

Post #6 of 23 (301 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

...Wifey eagerly devoured the books right after seeing FOTR and was immensely disappointed that Tolkien didn't give Legolas a bigger role.

She still prefers the films.

******************************************
A fox passing through the wood on business of his own stopped several minutes and sniffed. "A chicken crossing the road!" he thought. "Well, what next? I have heard of strange doings in this land, but I have seldom heard of a chicken crossing the road! There's something mighty queer behind this." He was quite right, but he never found out any more because he ate it.


Elizabeth
Half-elven


Apr 10 2014, 6:52pm

Post #7 of 23 (292 views)
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Reading the Sil [In reply to] Can't Post

If the early "creation myth" parts are where you stalled (like they are for many first-time readers) skip them altogether and start with the Quenta Silmarillion, which is where the real stories are.

Also, make a copy of the genealogies and the map. Put them in plastic protectors, and keep them handy. You'll find that very helpful in keeping track.








BlackFox
Half-elven


Apr 10 2014, 8:16pm

Post #8 of 23 (286 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm a movie-firster. I'd seen the LOTR films numerous times before I read the books and always enjoyed watching them whenever they were on TV, but that was it. It was only after I read the books (TH & LOTR) that I fell in love with Middle-earth. I re-watched the films and my eyes where opened to the beauty and depth that lied within them and I realized I'd only scratched the surface beforehand. Reading the books, I think I can thus say, enhanced my viewing experience infinitely. Suddenly everything became clear, I started to see all the little "threads" that "sewed the story together" and sense the true depth of this epic tale. Yes, I'm a movie-firster, but it was the books that got me hooked and turned my liking of the films into love.


"Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake." - Henry David Thoreau

(This post was edited by BlackFox on Apr 10 2014, 8:18pm)


EomundDaughter
Lorien

Apr 10 2014, 10:22pm

Post #9 of 23 (264 views)
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When I finally got to the books [In reply to] Can't Post

he was a neat addition...truly a loss that he was left out of the movies..


EomundDaughter
Lorien

Apr 10 2014, 10:23pm

Post #10 of 23 (264 views)
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Thanks and will give it another try.. [In reply to] Can't Post

 


DaughterofLaketown
Gondor


Apr 11 2014, 12:03am

Post #11 of 23 (254 views)
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Hahah [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
...Wifey eagerly devoured the books right after seeing FOTR and was immensely disappointed that Tolkien didn't give Legolas a bigger role.


I can relate! I was disappointed at first too. I had a little crush.


demnation
Rohan

Apr 11 2014, 12:33am

Post #12 of 23 (248 views)
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I happen to be a book AND film firster [In reply to] Can't Post

That is, I came to them at about the same time. For years and years the films kind of dominated by interest, but after reading the books a few times the depth and beauty of Tolkien's world truly revealed itself. So yeah, I'd say that the books enhanced my appreciation for the films, and now I'd say I a lover of the books first and films second.

"It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule." Gandalf, "The Last Debate."


Bracegirdle
Valinor


Apr 11 2014, 4:08am

Post #13 of 23 (234 views)
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Book-firster - Now and forever [In reply to] Can't Post

Having read the books many MANY times before seeing PJ’s interpretation I was aghast that he didn’t stay closer to the truth (books). The films (at least the 1st part of LOTR, whereafter I could enjoy them expecting some inaccuracies) seemed almost blasphemous and a personal affront to me. Of course I was into every crevice and every minutiae after these many readings, and my mind’s eye knew the landscape, the people, the occurrences etc. I’m not in the film business, but it seems that PJ (many times) made additions, subtractions, etc. that were unnecessary.
I can say that NOW I can enjoy the movies for what they are: Cinematographically beautifully done, beautifully acted, fairytales based (often loosely) on TH & LOTR.

I understand that perhaps I’m being overly harsh, but to change the words of the Master in so many ways just tweaks my sensibilities. To the movie lovers (and book readers that skim the “boring” parts) – consider:

Quote
Primeroles and anemones were awake in the filbert brakes; and asphodel and many lily-flowers nodded their half-opened heads in the grass. . .

How does one put this exquisiteness on film? Even after seeing the films my mind still ‘sees’ (usually) what it saw/created some 45 years ago – goodness, is that possible?

I suppose there will always be a schism (hopefully friendly) between the book & movie lovers. For those who haven’t read the books I wish you as great a joy as I had those many years ago.

>>>>THIS SPACE FOR HIRE<<<<
Contact Messrs. Grubb, Grubb, and Burrowes.
Hole #14, Bywater Pool Road


demnation
Rohan

Apr 11 2014, 4:52am

Post #14 of 23 (240 views)
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Well, it helps to remember that Tolkien wrote his books without [In reply to] Can't Post

any kind of future films in mind. (Unlike many of today's authors!) Considering that I think that the best things about Tolkien's work are things that can't be replicated in film, and that they were practically not adaptable for many years I think PJ did a pretty admirable job with what is probably one of the most frustrating authors to adapt.

"It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule." Gandalf, "The Last Debate."


Calithilel
Rivendell


Apr 11 2014, 8:19am

Post #15 of 23 (233 views)
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I saw the TTT movie first [In reply to] Can't Post

on tv, I saw only the Helm`s Deep scene (i wasn`t that old to watch the movies really.) and i totally fell in love in it already, it was so awesome. But sadly i could not watch more since i had to go sleep. Just that scene and the poster of Aragorn for Return of the King when it came out totally opened my mind for Fantasy and Middle-earth. I do love the movies and the books all together.

I agree with what Blackfox said too ;)

"If this is to end in fire, then we will all burn together." - Thorin Oakenshield

"So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us." - Gandalf the Grey

"I´m not a psychopath, I´m a highly functioning sociopath with your number." - Sherlock

"Some people are worth melting for." - Olaf, Frozen

(This post was edited by Calithilel on Apr 11 2014, 8:20am)


Gimloid
The Shire

Apr 11 2014, 2:31pm

Post #16 of 23 (216 views)
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Andrew Lloyd Webber? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I'm not in the film business, but it seems that PJ (many times) made additions, subtractions, etc. that were unnecessary.



I agree, and furthermore I don't accept the usual "film business" excuses; they are all based on the premise - spoken or (usually) unspoken - that making the maximum amount of money is the primary aim and everything else, including the integrity of the tale, can legitimately be compromised in the pursuit of that aim.

I reject that premise. The tale is paramount and the primary aim should be to tell it as faithfully as possible; anything else, especially anything to do with money, cannot be allowed to take precedence. Otherwise you are not telling the tale; you are telling a different one.

(Indeed, I take the same view of everything; the point of doing anything should be simply to do it as well as possible. If it is going to cost money you amass - not borrow, and not blag off "investors" with the promise of returns - the money before you start, so it doesn't matter how much, if any, you make back. You absolutely do not deliberately choose to do it less well in order to make more money - would the Elves have done that? Never.)


In Reply To
I understand that perhaps I'm being overly harsh


Not in my view :)


In Reply To
Even after seeing the films my mind still 'sees' (usually) what it saw/created some 45 years ago – goodness, is that possible?


As does mine! Indeed I don't even remember the most egregious butcheries of the films. My mind simply refused to perceive them (it's quite good at doing things like that). For instance I remember being puzzled at seeing people's comments on the internet about Elrond having a "radioactive mother-in-law" because I had as little memory of PJ's appalling travesty of Galadriel's wonderful scene as if I had not seen the film at all; it was not until I came across such a post accompanied by screenshots that I understood.


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 11 2014, 3:03pm

Post #17 of 23 (214 views)
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Personally... [In reply to] Can't Post

...I think the films are better films than the books, and the books are better books than the films.

But that's probably just me.

******************************************
Brother will fight brother and both be his slayer,
brother and sister will violate all bonds of kinship;
hard it will be in the world, there will be much failure of honor,
an age of axes, an age of swords, where shields are shattered,
an age of winds, an age of wolves, where the world comes crashing down;
no man will spare another.

-From the Völuspá, 13th Century


Bracegirdle
Valinor


Apr 11 2014, 8:09pm

Post #18 of 23 (188 views)
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Lor bless ya Gimloid... more later *picture hurried* // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

>>>>THIS SPACE FOR HIRE<<<<
Contact Messrs. Grubb, Grubb, and Burrowes.
Hole #14, Bywater Pool Road


Beorn's Bees
Lorien

Apr 11 2014, 8:47pm

Post #19 of 23 (186 views)
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Definately NOT disappointment [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm a movie firster and the books are much better imo.


Bracegirdle
Valinor


Apr 11 2014, 11:36pm

Post #20 of 23 (171 views)
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Grab the popcorn Alice! Let's watch PJ'.s imagination [In reply to] Can't Post

 

In Reply To
Indeed I don't even remember the most egregious butcheries of the films. My mind simply refused to perceive them (it's quite good at doing things like that).

Ahh! Great minds think alike! I read somewhere that someone counted over 300 PJ errors in the LOTR films. But like you my mind has blocked most of these “horrors” (some major some trivial (or what the average “buff” would call a triviality)). It’s only the major ones that I recall, such as Arwen riding to the rescue on Asfaloth! GIVE ME A BREAK PJ! You want more Arwen? I see no production problem with that. Just GIVE ME GLORFINDEL! WE WANTS HIM, WE DOES! Did you base your production on “Cliff’s Notes”? Was there no Tolkienophile on the set to say “WHOA PJ”? Did you read the Books? Methinks maybe a single skim, eh?
Now that I’ve found someone on my side I have harshness eruptus.

In Reply To
The tale is paramount and the primary aim should be to tell it as faithfully as possible; anything else, especially anything to do with money, cannot be allowed to take precedence. Otherwise you are not telling the tale; you are telling a different one.

Agreed! When it comes to the silver pennies to hellwith the truth! This is easier – let’s compromise. To spend millions of dollars on a book-based film and butcher the written word should be a punishable crime. (There are some movies that stay very close to the book – but this disgrace is not one of them, oh no.)

As I’ve said before the movies are eye-candy and those who have not read the books (or even once) are “trapped”.
I’ve noticed even using this site that if one asks a question as often as not he must specify “book” or “movie” to get a proper answer. And if I go to one of the movie rooms half the time I don’t even know what they’re talking about. This stuff is NOT Tolkien, it’s PJ. To watch the movies is to passively sit back with your popcorn and use PJ’s imagination, to read the books is to actively use YOUR (and Tolkien’s) imagination. Which is preferable need I even ask?

>>>>THIS SPACE FOR HIRE<<<<
Contact Messrs. Grubb, Grubb, and Burrowes.
Hole #14, Bywater Pool Road


MirielCelebel
Rivendell


Apr 12 2014, 2:07am

Post #21 of 23 (175 views)
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I read the books after seeing the movies [In reply to] Can't Post

but I read the Hobbit as a kid. I was too young when the films were in the theatre but in high school, the films and books were both my obsession and it never went away. CuriousG- to answer your question, I loved Tom Bombadil but I totally understood why he was left out of the films. His existence in the book were a window onto how Tolkien viewed the Earth. Where Peter Pan was the eternal spirit of youth, Bombadil is the eternal spirit of the forest. I think Jackson incorporated alot of him in the character of Treebeard so I at least appreciated his nod to Bombadil.

"The Road goes ever on..."

Writing Bliss


Matthias132
The Shire

Apr 16 2014, 2:16am

Post #22 of 23 (146 views)
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Movie First; Firm Book Believer [In reply to] Can't Post

I saw the movies as a kid, and grew up playing the video games, and in the games they always kind of spun off the books more than the movies. It wasn't until 2010, my freshman year, that I read the books. I love the books because they are books. The more I read the books, Tolkien biographies, etc., the more in love with Tolkien I became. I read the Silmarillion, and the Book of Lost Tales Part 1 and 2.

I am now a strict book believer, but when it comes to the movies, I can understand why PJ changed what he did. He may have taken some things and twisted them around, but when it comes to telling the magic, and showing the magic of ME, I have to say he did an exquisite job (especially, when dealing with such difficult books).

I can't get enough of Tolkien. He wrote the books as books, and not movies. I commend him for that, too. What Tolkien did is absolutely astounding, and PJ did an amazing job, too.

Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger.Courage is found in unlikely places - J.R.R. Tolkien (Gildor)


rangerfromthenorth
Rivendell

Apr 23 2014, 4:12pm

Post #23 of 23 (132 views)
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FOTR Firster [In reply to] Can't Post

After seeing the first one I devoured the whole trilogy before TTT made it theaters. I must say I thoroughly enjoyed the books, though Tommy was a bit annoying. I enjoy the books more than the movies and TTT as a movie I loved despite some of the changes.

I was more disappointed with RoTK as an adaptation with the paths of the dead being no where as epic in the movie as it was in the book, plus the darkness of the siege of Minas tirith in the book was much better.

The Hobbit, I had concerns about the movie not living up to the epic nature of the LoTR, but PJ has tried to remedy that in the process he has made many mistakes.

As I said to my wife, I hope no one ever remakes the LoTR trilogy, but I wouldn't mind if some one wanted to remake the Hobbit.

Not all those who wander are lost

 
 

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