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MirielCelebel
Rivendell
Apr 5 2014, 2:10am
Post #1 of 17
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Battle of Five Armies
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Ok, back in December I attended Mythmoot (a Tolkien conference associated with my online Tolkien Studies classes) and our favorite discussion (at least mine) was the Battle of Five Armies. We all know Peter Jackson took some liberties in expanding upon the original story, so there are several scenarios.
In the book, of course, Azog is already dead, killed by Dain. So will Dain be the one to kill him in TABA or will Jackson add some flair and have Thorin kill him? Azog delivers Thorin's death blow so Fili and Kili come to his defense and Bolg comes to defend Azog? Perhaps he kills Fili and Kili?
Tauriel comes to defend Kili (as she did WAY too many times in DOS) and is herself killed (since I'm convinced she has to die in order to solidify Legolas' story)? Or perhaps a son vs. son action in Bolg vs. Legolas?
But Beorn saves the day and scatters Bolg's forces so maybe he kills Bolg.
So many different match ups so fight amongst yourself...WHO KILLS WHO??
"The Road goes ever on..."
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tsmith675
Gondor
Apr 5 2014, 2:31am
Post #2 of 17
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Because of Thorin getting his butt handed to him in AUJ when he meets Azog, he has to kill Azog. I know people are wanting Dain to come in and kill Azog, but that isn't going to happen. It just has to be that Thorin kills him. I assume Bolg will kill Thorin then. And I definitely still hope Beorn kills Bolg. If he doesn't, it isn't the end of the world for me. I mean I don't really think it's a big deal who kills Bolg, as long as he is killed. But I really have no clue what's going to happen, who's going to kill who. It's really going to be interesting.
The one thing I'm fairly positive about though is that Thorin will kill Azog.
Our destiny lies above us.
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MirielCelebel
Rivendell
Apr 5 2014, 2:53am
Post #3 of 17
(498 views)
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That Thorin needs to kill Azog. It's just fits the Jackson storyline. But interesting doesn't begin to describe this battle scene lol
"The Road goes ever on..."
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MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea
Apr 5 2014, 2:55am
Post #4 of 17
(539 views)
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will most likely play out like this
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Azog and Thorin fight, Thorin receives some severe blows from Azog but finally Thorin kills him. Bolg runs down Thorin and slays him, the battle looks like its lost than Beorn shows up and slays Bolg.
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MirielCelebel
Rivendell
Apr 5 2014, 3:06am
Post #5 of 17
(512 views)
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remember, Thorin does not die on the battlefield. He must remain alive to talk to Bilbo and give his "child of the kindly West" speech and I swear I will cry if that scene is not in the movie. Well I'll be crying anyway but that scene will be remarkable if done properly.
"The Road goes ever on..."
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Apr 5 2014, 3:43am
Post #6 of 17
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Yep, make sure you bring a box of tissues with you.
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RA confirmed a while back that Thorin's dying words with Bilbo were filmed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
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Meneldor
Valinor
Apr 5 2014, 4:35am
Post #7 of 17
(493 views)
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"Nobody kills him. Humperdinck lives."
Which is to say, I'm not making or taking any bets on who kills whom in the PJverse.
Except Bard & Smaug. That's a sucker bet for sure.
They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters; These see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep.
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Apr 5 2014, 8:43am
Post #9 of 17
(429 views)
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Everyone is gunna "Enjoy Storming this Castle"?
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Meneldor is
First to die
by his own sword?
OR is he jus' gunna
Fly away as an Eagle?
As his Name implies..
"Bomby Reporting in...Live"
From the Old
Forest
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Bernhardina
Rohan
Apr 5 2014, 9:01am
Post #10 of 17
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Why? Because it is Tolkien AND because if the audiences are to accept Dain as the new king/replacing Thorin he will have to win their respect, by doing something that Thorin cannot do, and that's killing Azog. At least this is my opinion.
As for Bolg, I would like Beorn to kill him, since this is also Tolkien.
Anything other than this, or involving Tauriel, will make me dissapointed 
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NecromancerRising
Gondor
Apr 5 2014, 9:23am
Post #11 of 17
(397 views)
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ideal representation of the "personal" battles.
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MirielCelebel
Rivendell
Apr 5 2014, 12:54pm
Post #12 of 17
(381 views)
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Needing to kill Azog but that does make sense. I'm sooooooo glad someone mentioned "anyone but Tauriel" other than me. I don't hate her but I harbor a great resentment of her existence in the film and she's getting way too much screen time for not being a canon character. I only suggested her involvement because as I said I think she has to die (for my own personal pleasure) and to ensure Legolas has something to fight for later. And given her role in DOS she will probably die in defense of Kili.
"The Road goes ever on..."
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glor
Rohan
Apr 5 2014, 4:05pm
Post #13 of 17
(317 views)
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I actually think Dain will kill Azog and Azog is simply alive because of the timeline shift and to give some substance to Azog as the enemy of all dwarves, his death has been moved to give weight to Dain's inheritance of the Throne of Erebor. For those not as familair with Tolkien as most of TORN are, which when you think about it is, the majority of the cinema audience, seeing Dain kill Azog, and in the flashback in the Battle of Azanulbizar in AUJ, then having him turn up in the 3rd film to claim said throne wouldn't make sense especially, as Azog would just be some big Orc they saw in AUJ for 15 seconds.
Thorin will replace Nain and BOFA will replace Azanulbizar, so Thorin gets mortally wounded by Azog, who is then slain by Dain at BOFA. The point of the Azanulbizar flashback in AUJ was to seal in the audiences' mind that Thorin is the one they could call king and that Azog is the enemy of dwarves. If the Azanulbizar flashback had been shown on film exactly as Tolkien had written it, it would have been 30 minutes long at least and, featured flashbacks within the flashback and have had to introduce, Dain, Nain, Bolg and their backstories and would have negated the point of that scene in AUJ, to cement Thorin's kingship as a deed not just a right as well as being cinematically messy!
As for Tauriel, for me it's obvious; Tauriel is a jailer/guard and there is another way her story would make sense within the LOTR movie universe, she is the jailer/guard under whose watch Gollum escaped from Mirkwood. The friendship/mutual respect between Legolas and Tauriel is what motivates Legolas to join her in persuing/protecting the Dwarves during the Barrel Escape ( her, our fight speech is heeded, by a Prince from a commoner) and that same mutual respect being a factor in Legolas' attendance at the Council Of Elrond, and his first hand knowledge of evidence of Gollums capture and search. I know that's not canon but there are certain parallels between the Barrel escape in DOS and the imprisonment and fleeing of Gollum from Mirkwood, that stood out immediately during my first DOS viewing.
(This post was edited by glor on Apr 5 2014, 4:07pm)
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Elanor of Rohan
Lorien
Apr 5 2014, 4:07pm
Post #14 of 17
(376 views)
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told a fan something about BOFA at Boston Comic Con. This fan is a blogger and, sworn to secrecy, she hasn't divulged anything, but she admits at having been devastated by what he had told her: she hints she was not disappointed with the unfolding of events or surprised by the outcome, but I guess she was probably upset by all their (the actors') emotions involved.
That's what you get when you are a lurker on tumblr
 I cannot comment on this, though, too emotional... by the way this blogger is a Fili fan, so I guess once again it is something about Fili's death.
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Hanzkaz
Rohan
Apr 5 2014, 4:11pm
Post #15 of 17
(359 views)
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But he does save Bilbo from him and gets injured doing so.
Azog gets finished off by Dain of the Iron Hills (Azog killed his Dad, too, you know), giving the future King of the Dwarves his 'hero moment', a bit like Eomer and the charge of the Rohirrim.
Bolg gets killed by Beorn.
Tauriel gets saved by a certain young Dwarf, who gets killed anyway, and sails into the West, followed by many more Elves. Between the Battle of Five Armies and the massive exodus that follows, the power of the Elves is greatly diminished by the time of the War of the Ring.
I think it would be more poignant if Thorin does not achieve his goals personally (Kill Azog, kill Smaug, reclaim Erebor (which he sort of does but not for long.) There's a certain amount of self-interest in those goals (revenge, greed, etc). All those other goals should be achieved by others. I would want his true 'victory' to be more selfless like saving Bilbo's life, a final act of redemption for a great Dwarf who lost his way, but found himself before the end.
___________________________________________________
From the makers of 'The Lord of the Rings' comes the sequel to Peter Jackson's Hobbit Trilogy -
'The War in the North, Part I : The Sword in the Tomb'.
(This post was edited by Hanzkaz on Apr 5 2014, 4:14pm)
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IdrilofGondolin
Rohan
Apr 5 2014, 9:06pm
Post #16 of 17
(267 views)
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that's a relief. I was afraid that wasn't going to happen. Thanks for the post.
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The Grey Wanderer
Lorien
Apr 6 2014, 4:35pm
Post #17 of 17
(226 views)
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Not a fan of Bilbo needing saving...
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it would be a reversal of the character's personal story arc and a reversal of what Tolkien intended as it is more Bilbo who strives to save Thorin in the end (at least his "soul" if you will).
And Bilbo feeling guilty for causing Thorin's death would set the wrong mood for the death scene where one of the key themes of the whole story is stated "If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world." (2ed Ed, pg 299). This scene should evoke more the feel of Theoden's death scene in ROTK, which it parallels closely.
Dain now, Dain killing Azog would be appropriate - but PJ has yet to set up Dain as a character beyond a very passing mention that those who don't know the story would have missed, so I do not know where that is headed.
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