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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Thoughts on Galadriel

DaughterofLaketown
Gondor


Mar 22 2014, 4:28pm

Post #1 of 14 (323 views)
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Thoughts on Galadriel Can't Post

I have been doing some thinking lately about Galadriel and her husband Celeborn. The relationship is interesting becuase it is a relatively rare one in literature of this type. In many ways both Galadriel, and to use another example, Melian, are almost more of the rulers than there husbands. It is very clear in FoTR in particular that it is Galadriel who rules the realm and her husband serves little other purpose but to act as a consort, and perhaps prove a point widely held during Tolkien's time that all women should be married. Yet for the time in which the book was written it seems really revolutionary if you look at it. It is often the woman in all these stories who is of higher birth than the man, Melian was a Maiar, Galadriel was a Noldor, and Luthien was the daughter of a Maiar. In most of these stories the theme seems to be a woman marrying below her status. (I think I remember reading a thread remarking on this somewhere but I don't remember where.) But roles of women in the position of leadership in these stories are actually not such a modern idea. Celtic myths in particular are full of strong female heroines. Aoife, the warrior lover of Cuchulain, her sister Skatha, and most importantly queen Maeve. Queen Maeve's relationship with her husband Ailill is very similar to the relationship of Galadriel and Celeborn where the male plays a very secondary role to the more powerful woman.
Just some thoughts I've been having.


(This post was edited by DaughterofLaketown on Mar 22 2014, 4:31pm)


demnation
Rohan

Mar 22 2014, 4:42pm

Post #2 of 14 (214 views)
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Ah yes, the ever enigmatic Galadriel [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll be back soon with a more detailed answer, but here is a very interesting (and exhaustive) discussion we had recently about this fascinating figure.
http://newboards.theonering.net/...;;page=unread#unread

"It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule." Gandalf, "The Last Debate."


noWizardme
Tol Eressea


Mar 22 2014, 5:17pm

Post #3 of 14 (195 views)
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Welcome to the Reading Room DaughterofLaketown! [In reply to] Can't Post

You might enjoy the discussion of the Unfinished Tales chapter demnation has linked you to. But, I don't recall us discussing the interesting parallel you've raised here, with female leader figures in Celtic myth.

That's not something I know anything about, so I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts!

~~~~~~

"… ever let your aim be to come at truth, not to conquer your opponent. So you never shall be at a loss in losing the argument, and gaining a new discovery.”
Arthur Martine

"nowimë I am in the West, Furincurunir to the Dwarves (or at least, to their best friend) and by other names in other lands. Mostly they just say 'Oh no it's him - look busy!' "
Or "Hold off! unhand me, grey-beard loon!"

(This post was edited by noWizardme on Mar 22 2014, 5:17pm)


DaughterofLaketown
Gondor


Mar 22 2014, 10:29pm

Post #4 of 14 (163 views)
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I'll check it out! [In reply to] Can't Post

Cool


DaughterofLaketown
Gondor


Mar 22 2014, 10:42pm

Post #5 of 14 (171 views)
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Celtic mythology [In reply to] Can't Post

 is something of a passion of mine so I often can find parallels if I look hard enough. I probably would have been a bard had I lived a long time ago or a traveling performer.


noWizardme
Tol Eressea


Mar 23 2014, 9:04am

Post #6 of 14 (150 views)
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btw... [In reply to] Can't Post

When people refer newcomers back to older discussions, I don't think that the intent is ever to imply that we've discussed all that already, and that mire discussion now is unwanted (a reaction one can get on other forums).


No, no, no: we love more discussion now; and every new discussion comes out differently. But sometimes people are loath to repeat stuff they posted earlier, so like to link instead

~~~~~~

"… ever let your aim be to come at truth, not to conquer your opponent. So you never shall be at a loss in losing the argument, and gaining a new discovery.”
Arthur Martine

"nowimë I am in the West, Furincurunir to the Dwarves (or at least, to their best friend) and by other names in other lands. Mostly they just say 'Oh no it's him - look busy!' "
Or "Hold off! unhand me, grey-beard loon!"


DaughterofLaketown
Gondor


Mar 23 2014, 1:50pm

Post #7 of 14 (146 views)
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No offense taken. [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink I thought the stories were remarkably similar. I also thing Maeve captured the essence of a lot of the pride Galadriel was originally written to have.
The Cattle Raid of Cooley is one if the greatest works of Irish Literature.


noWizardme
Tol Eressea


Mar 23 2014, 2:46pm

Post #8 of 14 (135 views)
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We ride to Cooley! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The Cattle Raid of Cooley is one if the greatest works of Irish Literature.


I don't know that story Blush - would yo be able to recommend a version?

~~~~~~

"… ever let your aim be to come at truth, not to conquer your opponent. So you never shall be at a loss in losing the argument, and gaining a new discovery.”
Arthur Martine

"nowimë I am in the West, Furincurunir to the Dwarves (or at least, to their best friend) and by other names in other lands. Mostly they just say 'Oh no it's him - look busy!' "
Or "Hold off! unhand me, grey-beard loon!"


DaughterofLaketown
Gondor


Mar 23 2014, 5:16pm

Post #9 of 14 (119 views)
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I would love to. [In reply to] Can't Post

It would be my pleasure!

My favorite version is actually called The Hound of Ulster by Rosemary Sutcliff.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Hound-Ulster-Red-Classics/dp/0099438593/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1395594872&sr=8-1&keywords=The+hound+of+ulster

Here is the one I am talking about. It can be hard to find though. It reads very well and the way she tells it is wonderful. She is a great historical fiction writer of a bygone age and she has many wonderful books worth reading.BlushSmileSmileSmile


noWizardme
Tol Eressea


Mar 23 2014, 5:28pm

Post #10 of 14 (116 views)
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Rosemary Sutcliff is a fine author [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll check that out. Thanks!

~~~~~~

"… ever let your aim be to come at truth, not to conquer your opponent. So you never shall be at a loss in losing the argument, and gaining a new discovery.”
Arthur Martine

"nowimë I am in the West, Furincurunir to the Dwarves (or at least, to their best friend) and by other names in other lands. Mostly they just say 'Oh no it's him - look busy!' "
Or "Hold off! unhand me, grey-beard loon!"


Hamfast Gamgee
Gondor

Mar 23 2014, 11:44pm

Post #11 of 14 (121 views)
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In the Council of Elrond [In reply to] Can't Post

Why was no representative of Galadriel present? Of course, I know the real reason but I wonder if there is a literary one!


DaughterofLaketown
Gondor


Mar 24 2014, 2:03am

Post #12 of 14 (114 views)
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You know [In reply to] Can't Post

I never thought about that? It is strange.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Mar 24 2014, 1:05pm

Post #13 of 14 (103 views)
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Because the Council of Elrond was not planned in advance. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Why was no representative of Galadriel present? Of course, I know the real reason but I wonder if there is a literary one!



The Council of Elrond consisted of representatives of various Peoples of Middle-earth who had come to Rivendell on other business.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Bracegirdle
Grey Havens


Mar 24 2014, 8:10pm

Post #14 of 14 (118 views)
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The Council [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
The Council of Elrond consisted of representatives of various Peoples of Middle-earth who had come to Rivendell on other business.


Good answer Otaku. Boromir had most excellent timing. 110 days travel to make The Council just in time. Now, that's thinking ahead.. (joke)

"I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold
and leaves of gold there grew.
Of wind I sang, a wind there came
and in the branches blew."[/]

I just made that up.... Can you believe it ?? Pretty good huh?Wink

From World's End then he turned away,
and yearned again to find afar .
his home through shadows journeying,
and burning as an island star . . .

-Bilbo Baggins

 
 

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