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Three questions on The Ruling Ring
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Ruxendil_Thoorg
Grey Havens


Mar 23 2014, 3:56pm

Post #26 of 34 (73 views)
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congrats Elizabeth and Silverlode! well played! and good game, Bracegirdle! [In reply to] Can't Post

and thanks for the extra points! Blush

More like that please, if you've got any more. Heart

Things overheard during games of chess in Middle-earth:

Galadriel (any and every time she advances her pawn to the last row): "In its place you would have a QUEEN!!!!" (thunder booms)

http://newboards.theonering.net/...forum_view_expanded;


Bracegirdle
Grey Havens


Mar 23 2014, 5:37pm

Post #27 of 34 (82 views)
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Gramma.....Methinks [In reply to] Can't Post

thou hast not noted the title of this thread...Tongue

But I'm glad you did some thunking and had some cerebral exercise.

And you do bring up ALL, I say ALL of the known Rings of Power. Give yourself one "Atta-Girl !" Smile

(This post was edited by Bracegirdle on Mar 23 2014, 5:41pm)


sador
Half-elven


Mar 23 2014, 8:00pm

Post #28 of 34 (74 views)
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I'm not quite sure about your definitions. [In reply to] Can't Post

As will be seen. I'll count all the Ring handlers, and then weed them out.
1. Sauron - of course.
2. Isildur. He was definitely a Ring-bearer, and he wore the Ring on his ill-fated flight from the Gladden Fields (this is not just in UT, but in LotR as well! So there are no canon-issues).
3. Deagol. I would most definitely call him a Ring-bearer, as he took it and claimed it for himself. But he never wore it! So what do you call him? Just a Ring-handler?
4. Smeagol-Gollum.
5. Bilbo.
6. Gandalf - only handled the Ring in Bag-end. Twice: when picking it up after Bilbo let it fall, and when throwing it into Frodo's fireplace. Although arguably, he never touched the Ring directly; on the first occasion (and when throwing it into the fire) it was in the envelope, and he gave it back to Frodo while holding the tongs. I guess you still count him, thought this is debatable.
7. Frodo.
8. Tom Bombadil - he took the Ring, and even put it on, with no visible effect.
9. An unknown Rivendell elf, possibly Elrond himself. When Frodo woke in Rivendell, he found out that while he was asleep the chain was changed to a new one - which could not be done without handling the Ring.
XXX - I am not counting movie-Boromir!
10. Sam. I have actually tried this quiz on my son, and he was of the opinion that he was just a Ring-wearer. But this is not true - Sam took the Ring while supposing that Frodo was dead, and assuming the burden upon himself.
11. Frodo again. Do you count him as once, or twice?
12. Gollum again. This is a more serious question, as a long time has passed between this and his previous possesion of it; but on the brief second time, he was only a Ring-jandler.
So if I'm not counting Frodo and Gollum twice, I get to seven Ring-bearers, seven Ring-wearers (Deagol bore it without wearing, and Bombadil wore it but did not bear it), and ten Ring-handlers. I guess you are counting Deagol as a mere Ring-handler, and the answer you mean in six, seven and ten.
Personally, I would add a fourth category - that of Ring-carriers, which carried the Ring with its bearer. If I do not count birds and horses, this would include the Lake-town man who picked Bilbo up after the Bo5A, Aragorn (in Caradhras, Moria, and to Nimrodel), one of Faramir's soldiers (when lifting the blindfold hobbits on the way to Henneth Annun), and Faramir himself.


sador
Half-elven


Mar 23 2014, 8:53pm

Post #29 of 34 (68 views)
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Oops... [In reply to] Can't Post

I had to rush, so I've concluded the last post in a hurry.
Of course, I've missed two extra Ring-carriers - whoever it was who picked up Frodo and brought him from the Ford to Rivendell, and Sam on Mt. Doom.



Bracegirdle
Grey Havens


Mar 23 2014, 9:17pm

Post #30 of 34 (60 views)
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Definitions??? [In reply to] Can't Post

In case you missed my post on p.1
1. Bearers – 6 – Sauron, Isildur, Gollum, Bilbo, Frodo, Samwise. (Yes Sam is mentioned in the Books as a Bearer of the Ring, and rightfully so.)

2. Wearers – 1 – Tom Bombadil

3. Handlers – 3 – Gandalf (He DID HOLD the Ring), Deagol, and ‘possibly’ Elrond, but certainly someone ‘in the know’ in Rivendell. “Frodo found that while he slept the Ring had been hung about his neck on a NEW chain,…” (My caps) -Many Meetings FotR

But I will answer your questions/comments:


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3. Deagol. I would most definitely call him a Ring-bearer, as he took it and claimed it for himself. But he never wore it! So what do you call him? Just a Ring-handler?

Yes, just a handler. Most definitely NOT a bearer or wearer. Never put it on. Was not affected by it. Never "claimed it for himself" Held it for only minutes. The closest we can come to your thought - "I found this, and I'm going to keep it." - 'Shadow of the Past' FotR, just before he was killed. (I might find a dollar and say the same thing, but I'm not affected by the dollar.) ALL the bearers WERE affected.

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6. Gandalf - only handled the Ring in Bag-end. Twice: when picking it up after Bilbo let it fall, and when throwing it into Frodo's fireplace. Although arguably, he never touched the Ring directly; on the first occasion (and when throwing it into the fire) it was in the envelope, and he gave it back to Frodo while holding the tongs. I guess you still count him, thought this is debatable.

"He unfastened it and handed it slowly to the wizard."
"Gandalf held it up." "he stooped and removed .....and at once picked it up." -The Shadow of the Past . Not debatable, Gandalf was a handler.
I'm beginning to think you missed P. 1 of this thread? But onward


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12. Gollum again. This is a more serious question, as a long time has passed between this and his previous possesion of it; but on the brief second time, he was only a Ring-jandler.

He's just a single individual. A 'bearer', therefore a 'handler'.
I stand by my tally Handlers 10, Wearers 7, Bearers 6

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Personally, I would add a fourth category - that of Ring-carriers, which carried the Ring with its bearer. If I do not count birds and horses, this would include the Lake-town man who picked Bilbo up after the Bo5A, Aragorn (in Caradhras, Moria, and to Nimrodel), one of Faramir's soldiers (when lifting the blindfold hobbits on the way to Henneth Annun), and Faramir himself.

Pushing it now! But how about Sam piggy-backing Frodo.
I appreciate your different way of looking at our little game. Thanks Unimpressed

From World's End then he turned away,
and yearned again to find afar .
his home through shadows journeying,
and burning as an island star . . .

-Bilbo Baggins


sador
Half-elven


Mar 24 2014, 3:48am

Post #31 of 34 (49 views)
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Well, I did end by counting according to your definitions. [In reply to] Can't Post

And in my next post titled "oops" I did mention Sam, as well as another Ring-carrier.

Thanks for this game!
(And yes, I did not look in your answers on page 1 before answering myself. I do not cheat in quizzes, even if someone won already)


Bracegirdle
Grey Havens


Mar 24 2014, 4:20am

Post #32 of 34 (45 views)
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I did mention Sam, as well as another Ring-carrier. [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, we crossed in transit while I was working on your answers. Good catches though.


Cheers sador, and thanks for playing.Blush


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 24 2014, 7:55am

Post #33 of 34 (40 views)
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Defining a ring-carriers might get a little confusing? [In reply to] Can't Post

Does Glorfindel count, on the basis that he "supported" Frodo when they first meet:


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Glorfindel caught Frodo as he sank to the ground, and taking him gently in his arms he looked in his face with grave anxiety.


And what about Shelob as well?


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As he rushed up he saw that Frodo was already bound in cords, wound about him from ankle to shoulder, and the monster with her great forelegs was beginning half to lift, half to drag his body away.



Bracegirdle
Grey Havens


Mar 24 2014, 7:54pm

Post #34 of 34 (87 views)
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Confused here too.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Glorfindel caught Frodo as he sank to the ground, and taking him gently in his arms he looked in his face with grave anxiety.

Yes DanielLB, I think this would count as a "carrier".. Nice catch!
You listening sador?
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half to lift, half to drag his body away.

I don't think this would count as a full legitimate "carrier" (but close).
Wouldn't this fall under the catagory of "Roller-Upper"?
Tongue

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