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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
My own personal conspiracy theory, concerning Dain, spoilers

Hamfast Gamgee
Gondor

Mar 9 2014, 11:45pm

Post #1 of 12 (716 views)
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My own personal conspiracy theory, concerning Dain, spoilers Can't Post

So don't read this if you don't know! But things do seem to work out rather well for Dain in the tale. Not only is the Kingdom under the Mountain restored, but also the main Dwarves blocking his claim for kingship are also, very conveniently slain. Now, ok, Thorin was slain by the Goblins. But I wonder a bit about the next of kin. Where they slain by Goblins alone? Or did Dain have a bit of an influence in this? Didn't want other claimants to the kingship better than his, did he!


boldog
Rohan


Mar 10 2014, 5:23am

Post #2 of 12 (360 views)
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???? [In reply to] Can't Post

The next in line after thorin was fili then kili, but unfortunately they died defending thorin in battle from the orcs. Dain did not do any assassinations. It's way out of his character, especially among dwarves, and being of his kin

"And do you really think, Thorin Oakenshield, that Bolg will have the slightest symphony for you? After he watched you hack his fathers hand off, so ruthlessly in Moria. Azogs defeat has brought nothing to you, only refuelled hate of his kin, upon yours"


Meneldor
Tol Eressea


Mar 10 2014, 2:14pm

Post #3 of 12 (290 views)
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Follow the money. [In reply to] Can't Post

We've established a motivation, what about opportunity?


They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters; These see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep.


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Mar 10 2014, 2:21pm

Post #4 of 12 (290 views)
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I kind of feel like... [In reply to] Can't Post

...Dain has been the recipient of a small bit of character assassination in these films. His deeds at Moria have been taken away from him and he has explicitly refused to aid Thorin. Hopefully TaBA portrays Dain as a worthwhile heir - in Tolkien lore, Dain is portrayed as a fearsome warrior and a just king.


Noria
Rohan

Mar 10 2014, 2:43pm

Post #5 of 12 (270 views)
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I love conspiracy theories [In reply to] Can't Post

And this is a good one!Wink

Though in the book is not Dain Thorin's heir anyway, being related through the male line?

In the movie, Thorin has stated that Fili is his heir, so he is.

This must be an example of the law of unintended consequences. Make a few changes to the history of Durin's line and Dain's personal history and now he looks like a villain! Laugh


Thranderz
Rohan


Mar 10 2014, 10:58pm

Post #6 of 12 (193 views)
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Funnily enough [In reply to] Can't Post

This theory was one of the first things I read on this site a few years ago, when I was still a lurker. I laughed all day. Tongue

I simply walked into Mordor.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Mar 11 2014, 1:21am

Post #7 of 12 (187 views)
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No! That's terrible! [In reply to] Can't Post

I refuse to believe that the dwarf that ends up ruling the kingdom got there through anything but nobility! And I really hope the film shows this well, although with Billy Connelly I'm not sure how well it'll be handled Crazy

I think it's really important that Dain kills Azog (or Bolg?) in passionate vengeance for this reason, we can't have a nobody taking up the throne, and we certainly don't want a villain there.

It's odd, but the throne of Erebor has become a main central pillar of these films, arguably more important than Bilbo, and the guy who ends up actually achieving what this story is ultimately all about... is a guy that, not only have we not met 2 films in... but who is apparently Billy Connelly... with a mohawk... on a pig.

The mind boggles at how they're going to pull this off.


(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Mar 11 2014, 1:26am)


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Mar 11 2014, 7:29am

Post #8 of 12 (158 views)
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Of course Dain is still Thorin's heir in the movie as well as Fili..... [In reply to] Can't Post

You can have more than one - it's called line of succession!


Fili is the next in line, followed by Kili, as sister sons (Frerin obviously died without issue) then the succession passes to Thorin's cousin Dain...


It's rather like if Charles was King of England right now, and he, William, baby George and a childless Harry of Wales were all killed on the same day, then the crown would pass to Prince Andrew..


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort


(This post was edited by Eleniel on Mar 11 2014, 7:32am)


Noria
Rohan

Mar 11 2014, 1:01pm

Post #9 of 12 (135 views)
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Of course you are right. [In reply to] Can't Post

But I was referring to Thorin's immediate successor.

IIRC, the details that Fili and Kili are Thorin's sister-sons and that Dain is his cousin have not yet been mentioned in the movies. Again IIRC, this version of The Hobbit did not overtly reveal the relationship between Thorin and his nephews until Laketown, though in a very different way from the book. Cute!

As a Canadian, I am familiar with the line of succession of the British monarchy. Elizabeth II is the queen of Canada too Wink.


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Mar 11 2014, 4:13pm

Post #10 of 12 (120 views)
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Cool! Glad you know what I am talking about :-) [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps I should have said Dain can still be Thorin's heir in the movies...
Talking of which, I doubt if the actual detail of how Fili and Kili are related to Thorin will be touched upon - it's enough for the audience to know they are simply his nephews....
I couldn't remember whether or not Dain was described as Thorin's cousin in AUJ...if not, then that ought to be rectified, unless they are going to change the outcome of the story! Shocked


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort


Hamfast Gamgee
Gondor

Mar 11 2014, 11:57pm

Post #11 of 12 (93 views)
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Don't give Andrew ideas [In reply to] Can't Post

I expect they do all get on the same plane at times Smile


MirielCelebel
Rivendell

Mar 14 2014, 4:43pm

Post #12 of 12 (89 views)
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poor Dain [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree that Dain has received a bad presence in the films. Dain was crazy young when he killed Azog and it was his age that made him so famous. Being played by Billy Connelly I really hope they do him justice. As to the theory, Dain would never be involved in any such plot. We are not talking about the world of the 21st century, people in Middle-earth (at lease those not influenced by evil) just don't think that way. Family was very important to the dwarves and to Tolkien, it's a repetitive theme. This is creative but I believe unsubstantiated.

 
 

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