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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
"I See Fire" starting too suddenly?

TheHutt
Gondor


Mar 7 2014, 3:14pm

Post #1 of 22 (894 views)
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"I See Fire" starting too suddenly? Can't Post

One thing I think that hasn't been said about I See Fire before:

It starts way too suddenly in the credits!

On LOTR, there was always a piece of Shore's music that played during the first section of the credits; the song didn't actually start before somewhat around the names of the actors.
On the first Hobbit, the intro chords for Song of the Lonely Mountain took a bit of time, so that the actual singing started with the actor's names as well.

But on I See Fire there is this piercing yell by Ed Sheeran just when Peter Jackson's name comes up. I always felt it was disturbing, and more importantly: it just suffocates any attempt for the audience to applaud to the director's title (something I witnessed on both LOTR trilogy and the first Hobbit). The song does pick up after that, but this beginning of it... it still gets on my nerves every time. And I also think that's the main reason why I See Fire was received rather coolly by the audiences, compared to the other PJ's ME screen adaptations' songs (ok, the TTT song wasn't a masterpiece either).

Does anyone happen to agree?

Russian LOTR & Hobbit Site: Henneth-Annun.ru


Shagrat
Gondor

Mar 7 2014, 3:25pm

Post #2 of 22 (526 views)
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Most importantly... [In reply to] Can't Post

The lack of 20-30 seconds bridging music means we can't get out of the theatre before the awful song begins!


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Mar 7 2014, 3:33pm

Post #3 of 22 (477 views)
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There is a good few seconds of black silence before the song starts, though // [In reply to] Can't Post

N/T


Old Toby
Gondor


Mar 7 2014, 3:38pm

Post #4 of 22 (520 views)
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Nope, sorry but I disagree completely [In reply to] Can't Post

I felt it was exactly right, when and how it started. Then again, I love the song. So I think for those who don't like the song, it probably isn't just a matter of when it started, but that it started at all. Unimpressed

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)

(This post was edited by Old Toby on Mar 7 2014, 3:39pm)


Werde Spinner
Rohan


Mar 7 2014, 3:51pm

Post #5 of 22 (467 views)
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Meh. I don't know. [In reply to] Can't Post

Since to me the song encapsulates pretty well everything that just happened as the movie finished, it's all right with me if it picks right up from there. Then again, I like the song, so...

"I had forgotten that. It is hard to be sure of anything among so many marvels. The world is all grown strange. Elf and Dwarf in company walk in our daily fields; and folk speak with the Lady of the Wood and yet live; and the Sword comes back to war that was broken in the long ages ere the fathers of our fathers rode into the Mark! How shall a man judge what to do in such times?"

"As he ever has judged. Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house."


CathrineB
Rohan


Mar 7 2014, 4:06pm

Post #6 of 22 (458 views)
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Nah [In reply to] Can't Post

The problem with the song is that it's terrible. The lyrics might work, but if it could actually see fit in Middle Earth it wouldn't feel soooo far out of place Crazy I'd rather take plain instrumental Howard Shore score over that.


Elessar
Valinor


Mar 7 2014, 4:13pm

Post #7 of 22 (456 views)
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Never thought about it before to be honest. [In reply to] Can't Post

All-in-all I really love the song.



Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Mar 7 2014, 4:43pm

Post #8 of 22 (428 views)
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Me either [In reply to] Can't Post

Applause at the end of a movie isn't really a thing where I'm from so how/when it starts didn't bother me or the rest of the audience at all. Then, I love the song too and think it works just fine the way it is.

"So fare thee well, my own true love
I'll think of you night and day
A place in my mind, you will surely find
Although I am so far away
And when I'm alone, far away from home
I'll think of the good times once more
Until I can make it back someday here
To Paddy's green shamrock shore"
--The High Kings


KingTurgon
Rohan


Mar 7 2014, 6:26pm

Post #9 of 22 (396 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

I bet most of us could listen to Shore all day, so that's not saying much :P


CathrineB
Rohan


Mar 7 2014, 7:11pm

Post #10 of 22 (376 views)
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Yeah? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I bet most of us could listen to Shore all day, so that's not saying much :P


Yeah? Well... yeah totally Laugh True.


Bombadil
Half-elven


Mar 7 2014, 9:12pm

Post #11 of 22 (353 views)
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When Sumthin' like this..."Earth Shatterin'" Topic? [In reply to] Can't Post

comes up..
Bomby sayz

"Petition PJ"

if you get enough signatures
you can FORCE... PJ

...to Re-Edit?

Crazy


Faleel
Rohan


Mar 7 2014, 9:26pm

Post #12 of 22 (344 views)
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IIRC [In reply to] Can't Post

IIRC originally in FOTR In Dreams would have come first, and would have appeared right when the director's name did.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9VlFva3BFRTlNVVk/edit?usp=sharing


Magpie
Immortal


Mar 7 2014, 9:52pm

Post #13 of 22 (328 views)
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'would have?' [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
IIRC originally in FOTR In Dreams would have come first, and would have appeared right when the director's name did.


It didn't come first. I'm not sure where the 'would have' comes in. In the movie and on the CR-FOTR, May it Be comes first. On the OST, In Dreams comes first.

I've not read anything that indicates that there was ever any plan 'originally' to put In Dreams first. We certainly can't take the fact that In Dreams is first on the OST as an indication that it was ever meant to be first. It's my opinion that the order was changed for the OST so May it Be could be marketed as a stand alone song (as it's own track). (and May it Be was heavily marketed in that way - quite a bit of the marketing for the FOTR score focused on Enya and May it Be... not Shore) And by putting May it Be first in the credit music, it would be heard by the highest number of movie goers before they picked up their stuff and left the theater.

Perhaps I'm forgetting some comment that indicates there was some intention that the movie was originally meant to play In Dreams first.

and to be clear for others, the video that you link to is of your making, correct? It's not a clip of the actual movie. You've combined music and video how you think the music should have been used or how you think the music was intended to be used.


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Faleel
Rohan


Mar 7 2014, 10:09pm

Post #14 of 22 (315 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

..The film/CR version is obviously a musically informed edit* of various tracked cues from the score (OST version of Rivendell, the Council of Elrond etc. some of these may be alternate takes), where OST has original material (the string bridge into "May It Be" and the rousing statement of the Fellowship theme).

*(There could either be an Insert of a hummed statement of "In Dreams" in the film version, or it could have been microedited out of the OST OR, it was tracked from In Dreams with Edward Ross stripped out of the mix)

Hopefully this makes sense, I am not the most skilled in making sense of my thoughts ;)


(This post was edited by Faleel on Mar 7 2014, 10:11pm)


Arannir
Valinor


Mar 7 2014, 10:57pm

Post #15 of 22 (304 views)
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No [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it is pure genious and has a huge impact on me every time I see the moment. The cut to black, the silence, the great song. Perfect transition and composition.


All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


Smeagol Bagginsess
Rivendell


Mar 8 2014, 4:07am

Post #16 of 22 (252 views)
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Quite true [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, the song is truly awful anyway so it doesn't matter when it would start.
But the instantaneous start (instantaneously) puts me in the "uncomfortable-mode" and as it goes on there is a transition to "cover-ears-with-hands mode".


Magpie
Immortal


Mar 8 2014, 4:41am

Post #17 of 22 (234 views)
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I'm still not sure how one thing leads to another [In reply to] Can't Post

Just because there is some music on the OST (bridge music) that is not in the movie doesn't mean that In Dreams was originally slated to come first.

One could speculate that In Dreams was intended to come first... I will grant you that. But I cannot grant a total acceptance of that as fact without supporting comments from either Howard or Doug.

In my website, I always tried to be very clear what I knew (and could provide citations or references for) and what I thought.

You think that In Dreams was originally slated to come first. You don't know it.

I don't believe it was ever intended to come first. I think the music was reordered for the OST and bridge music was composed to make it work. That is my opinion and I can't prove it as fact because I can't find any comment in my (fairly copious) notes that discuss the line up.

But I will be clear that it is my opinion.


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Mar 8 2014, 12:59pm

Post #18 of 22 (207 views)
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The song does not fit the world IMO... [In reply to] Can't Post

It's too "Top 40" sounding, and just going by the music and vocals (not the lyrics), it would sound more at home at the end of a teenager flick. I would've been fine with something folky, if it felt ancient or medieval (which this song does not). "I See Fire" sounds like something you'd hear walking around in a shopping mall.


Faleel
Rohan


Mar 8 2014, 3:37pm

Post #19 of 22 (190 views)
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1 [In reply to] Can't Post

I forgot to mention that the track I used for the video, was given to me by Jim Ware (the guy who wrote those excellent breakdowns of the LOTR OST's that you linked to on your website), who labeled it as an alternate (early/original etc.) version.

Of course, it IS just speculation based on the fact that the OST version seems like an actual full composition, where the CR version seems like sections switched around and inserts written to accommodate the re-arrangment.

In short:

The OST version sounds like the full cue as recorded (with some edits for the OST listening experience), The CR version sounds like an edit made for the film (the whole FOTR CR contains TONS of film edits and tracked cues, it is more like an Isolated score, really)


(This post was edited by Faleel on Mar 8 2014, 3:50pm)


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Mar 9 2014, 1:24am

Post #20 of 22 (144 views)
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Agreed, i would have gone with a haunting Enya track to end.. [In reply to] Can't Post

on that "doomsday" note that they left us hanging on and than transitioned into I See Fire.

 photo 1bf768b4-0b33-420d-9c59-41ea3cf03def_zps1d44c4cf.jpg


Kirly
Lorien


Mar 9 2014, 5:03am

Post #21 of 22 (138 views)
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I actually thought it was all perfectly done [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm wondering if what you describe as a piercing yell isn't just a manifestation of the volume of the sound in the theatre. I agree it's much louder than on either the YouTube or the CD. On the YouTube it seems to me that Sheeran isn't singing all that loudly. On the CD, I have to turn the volume up tremendously to get the same effect as in the theatre and notice that he gets much more energetic later in the song.

My avatar photo is Lake Tekapo in New Zealand's South Island. Taken by me in 2004 on a Red Carpet Tours LOTR Movie Location Tour. 'Twas the Vacation of a Lifetime!

pictures taken while on the tour are here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/Kirly7/LOTRNewZealandTour#


Yngwulff
Gondor


Mar 9 2014, 5:59am

Post #22 of 22 (140 views)
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I see short people [In reply to] Can't Post

IE Dwarves LOL

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.


 
 

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