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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Splicing the segregated dwarves
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Glorfindela
Valinor


Mar 6 2014, 6:36pm

Post #26 of 40 (276 views)
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An interesting post Ė thank you [In reply to] Can't Post

I shall ponder on it once I have more time! Smile


Riven Delve
Grey Havens


Mar 6 2014, 7:31pm

Post #27 of 40 (251 views)
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Thanks for posting... [In reply to] Can't Post

Helpful and thought-provoking! Smile


"My chief objection to a quarrel is that it ends a good argument." --G.K. Chesterton



(This post was edited by Riven Delve on Mar 6 2014, 7:33pm)


FoFo64
Rivendell


Mar 6 2014, 8:40pm

Post #28 of 40 (225 views)
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You're welcome! [In reply to] Can't Post

Feel free to let me know more of what you think when you have time. Or PM me if need be.

'It is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing...such a little thing...' Boromir; Fellowship of the Ring Film

(This post was edited by FoFo64 on Mar 6 2014, 8:40pm)


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Mar 6 2014, 9:15pm

Post #29 of 40 (249 views)
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Personal criticism has been removed from this thread. [In reply to] Can't Post

Please keep your comments to the topic at hand and do not stoop to personal digs at other board members.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Thranderz
Rohan


Mar 6 2014, 9:23pm

Post #30 of 40 (211 views)
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Totally agreed! :) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I simply walked into Mordor.


Noria
Rohan

Mar 6 2014, 10:09pm

Post #31 of 40 (196 views)
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Well said FoFo64 [In reply to] Can't Post

When I'm not watching them but am thinking about AUJ and DoS, I try to consider the choices made by PJ et al as if I had never read the books and am unfamiliar with the plot and characters. I firmly believe that these movies are constructed more for people who are not that familiar with the books. We Tolkien fans understand what's happening anyway.

This approach doesn't always work that well but it helps me to be more objective about some of the changes.


Avandel
Valinor

Mar 7 2014, 12:22am

Post #32 of 40 (179 views)
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No ravens ): ? ? [In reply to] Can't Post

"that the four will bring Thorin the news of the coming siege."

This, or something like it. Or just a natural desire to find out what happened to their family members, and I can see a slightly different scenario where the dwarves are reunited and there is a brief respite, but Thorin *sniff* rapidly degenerates and Bard w. Thranduil (after Bard looks around and realizes he needs to supply his own people) tries to get Thorin to give up some gold, but all dwarves are there w. Bilbo to witness Thorin telling Bard to bugger off, basically, and things degenerate from there. While Fili and especially Kili exchange looks w. Tauriel (assuming she's with Thranduil by this time and the rest of the elves) because they feel rotten about what is going on but are powerless to stop it.

Just because of RA saying Bilbo becomes his confidante as he sickens, so that to me sounded as though the other dwarves are there, but Thorin as leader was always somewhat isolated and Bilbo would understand something of what is happening. *Sigh* sounds very sad.

OK, I have no sense of distance in ME, so could Dain simply be alerted by seeing smoke on the horizon - or maybe it will be something symbolic as a huge flock of ravens flying towards Erebor, so Dain knows something is up and goes to check things out - and since it's probably something bad brings an army with him? Or has been posted, a raven is used like a carrier pigeon? I do hope the ravens show up in some way, it's such great motif.


Glorfindela
Valinor


Mar 7 2014, 12:33am

Post #33 of 40 (172 views)
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You know, Noria [In reply to] Can't Post

I am not a book purist Ė in fact I haven't read The Hobbit for many years and don't intend to do so until the films are well and truly over. I think I am making judgements about the films without making comparisons to the book at all. A great many things in the LotR films were completely unlike how I'd imagined them to be from reading the books, but after the initial shock when seeing FotR, I seemed to 'get it' and could view the books and films as different entities, though I always had the books in the back of my mind. The same applies to The Hobbit, though I think the story is much more developed in the films Ė but not always in a way that I like.

The changes from the book only really bother me when they alter the atmosphere of the original story to a degree that I find unacceptable Ė whether it's because a scene is too superficial for my liking, or appears crass, vulgar or just plain idiotic. There aren't that many instances like this as far as I'm concerned, but there are certainly at least two in DoS that mar the film for me.


In Reply To
When I'm not watching them but am thinking about AUJ and DoS, I try to consider the choices made by PJ et al as if I had never read the books and am unfamiliar with the plot and characters. I firmly believe that these movies are constructed more for people who are not that familiar with the books. We Tolkien fans understand what's happening anyway.

This approach doesn't always work that well but it helps me to be more objective about some of the changes.



Noria
Rohan

Mar 7 2014, 1:05pm

Post #34 of 40 (133 views)
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My approach works for me. [In reply to] Can't Post

I find it interesting to think about the reasons changes, additions and omissions were made to canon in creating these adaptations. It helps me to get over the little bit of purist left in me. I still think some changes were mistakes though. For instance I understand the reasoning for having Frodo send Sam away in RotK but I still think it sucks. There is less of that for me in The Hobbit movies.

You think that some of the choices PJ in DoS made donít work and thatís fair enough. It's a shame that they mar your enjoyment of the movie, the more so because I'm sure we will see more of the same in TaBA. Iím pretty happy with AUJ and DoS as they are so itís easy for me to accept the changes.


Smeagol Bagginsess
Rivendell


Mar 7 2014, 3:06pm

Post #35 of 40 (125 views)
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Actually that's the opposite for me. [In reply to] Can't Post

I consider DOS a better film than AUJ or RotK. and in some ways, TTT even.

Adaptation-wise however, it's not quite the same order.


Smeagol Bagginsess
Rivendell


Mar 7 2014, 3:10pm

Post #36 of 40 (134 views)
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That is more or less, one can hope for [In reply to] Can't Post

The places where he can go wrong the most, along with the split dwarves would be the Kili-Tauriel relationship (Kili in dying in Tauriels' arms? Boo! ) and Gandalf's "rescue".
And of course, Legolas is there who always, ALWAYS turns a serious war into a parodied superhero sequence.


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Mar 7 2014, 8:06pm

Post #37 of 40 (113 views)
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As far as the things you mentioned... [In reply to] Can't Post

I am certain that Bard will be the one to do Smaug in. Why else would they have gone to such lengths to flesh out his character and play up Girion's failure? This is one area I am completely expecting PJ to stick to the book, although how Bard will do it is still up in the air (will it be done with the bow, or the windlass/windlance/whatever its called?). BTW, I'm almost never in favor of Jackson adding his own things into the story, but fleshing out Bard was absolutely necessary, and I think they did a good job of it (and including Bain was a nice little tidbit for us lore geeks).

I am not so sure Jackson is going to handle the Bo5A the way I'd like him to. First, he is going to want to resolve the Tauriel/Kili nonsense, so he may end up doing something completely ridiculous regarding Kili's death, such as Kili dying while defending Tauriel, instead of while defending Thorin. Second, he may include a Bolg/Legolas showdown instead of giving Beorn his high-profile kill (it might just be me, but it does seem that PJ is under the impression that we, the audience, care more about Legolas than we do about Beorn). And thirdly, Dain should be involved in the death of Azog to some degree, but I can see PJ allowing Thorin to duel Azog solo just so the non-reader movie masses will be satisfied.

As for the split-up Dwarves, I doubt PJ is going to kill any more than the 3 that are supposed to die. However, if he does decide to kill off one of the Dwarves in the Smaug assault, Oin isn't automatically safe. Oin was never mentioned as being part of the Moria expedition in the LotR films, so in this version of the tale it could very well be that Oin does not accompany Balin to Moria.


FoFo64
Rivendell


Mar 7 2014, 9:18pm

Post #38 of 40 (94 views)
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I actually wouldn't mind... [In reply to] Can't Post

Kili dying in defense of Tauriel or even in Tauriel's arms. I know this is very controversial among us book fans, but taking into account how the film's narrative has progressed, it would flow pretty naturally.

Otherwise, where else is the Tauriel/Fili relationship going. And for those who disagree, we already have Fili to defend Thorin to the death. I wouldn't mind either scenario. I actually think, for me at least, that seeing Kili die in Tauriel's arms would be pretty heart-wrenching, particularly after his heartfelt conversation with her about his mother back home.

I also think Thorin should be the one to kill Azog, in the film. The movies have been building up Azog to be his mortal enemy, it would be pretty anticlimactic if he doesn't at least get to fight him. Hopefully they both deliver the mortal blow to each other. That'd be epic.

'It is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing...such a little thing...' Boromir; Fellowship of the Ring Film


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Mar 7 2014, 9:30pm

Post #39 of 40 (90 views)
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I don't know... [In reply to] Can't Post

All of it just seems so, well, wrong, at least IMO.


Smeagol Bagginsess
Rivendell


Mar 8 2014, 4:18am

Post #40 of 40 (81 views)
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I don't say it can't work well within the film [In reply to] Can't Post

"I actually think, for me at least, that seeing Kili die in Tauriel's arms would be pretty heart-wrenching, particularly after his heartfelt conversation with her about his mother back home. "

I don't say it can't work well within the film, but most of PJ's dramatic scenes do not take long to transcend into the melodramatic. That is what I find sickening to think about. If done bad, it could pretty much turn into a scene from Twilight.

Small chances, but one can hope it does not get into that wishy-washy melodramatic end like that Thorin-hug.



(This post was edited by Smeagol Bagginsess on Mar 8 2014, 4:18am)

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