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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
So what will the villain focus be in TABA?

boldog
Rohan


Feb 14 2014, 10:20am

Post #1 of 10 (690 views)
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So what will the villain focus be in TABA? Can't Post

Ive been thinking of this a bit recently and it is quite interesting to think of. By the time we get to TABA, we are going to have three well established primary antagonists: Smaug, Sauron, and Azog. So how are they going to give each character their own time to shine, without being put aside by the presence of another villain? this is what i believe PJ will do.

Our first focus will be smaug. The way that dos ended is enough to make his famous scene continue straightaway into taba. The laketown attack will be very prominent, with no cuts to other storylines, (save thorin and bilbos reactions maybe). Once he is slain by bard though, i want that to be it for smaug! Time to move onto the next two.

Second focus will be The necromancer/sauron. His scenes with the white council, will most likely intercut, with the political debate in erebor. But basically what will happen with him, is that he obviously fights the council, but somehow (dont know how yet) he manages to flee. What this could be, is a little tease to the audience that the real threat is over. They will think that he has escaped and the danger has past. But they have forgotten about the third.....

,,,,,,,focus AZOG! (my fav Wink) What i kind of hope pj does, is not show anything of the army marching, or of Azog at all until sauron is driven out. This will lead audences to a sudden realisation that the threat is still there. They may have forgotten about Azog for not seeing him for the first half of the film, but with him now shown leading an army, they will be very shocked and excited for more action. Also, Azog can do his part in killing/mortally wounding, thorin/fili/kili. Once he dies at bo5a, the villains will all be finished. or will they??......

.....what should then happen, is a little reminder to the audience that sauron is not dead, and there should be a shot of him in mordor. This will show that the immidiate threat has been destroyed, but a much greater one is yet to come, thus forshadowing, the events of LOTR.

either way what do you all think? It is clear that Azog, Smaug and Sauron are the primary antagonist of this trilogy. Bolg to me isnt major, as he is just a henchman of azog

"And do you really think, Thorin Oakenshield, that Bolg will have the slightest symphony for you? After he watched you hack his fathers hand off, so ruthlessly in Moria. Azogs defeat has brought nothing to you, only refuelled hate of his kin, upon yours"

(This post was edited by boldog on Feb 14 2014, 10:23am)


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Feb 14 2014, 2:16pm

Post #2 of 10 (289 views)
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Four, if we count Bolg. [In reply to] Can't Post

We probably should include Bolg, as he led the Orc/goblin army in the book and is also featured in the second and third movies.

Smaug will be dealt with fairly quickly; if not at the very beginning of the movie then in the first act.

The conflict with Sauron might be handled in two stages, unless the rescue of Gandalf and the White Council's assault are presented as a single event.

I suspect that Azog will lead Sauron's army as a whole and unite it with Orcs and lesser goblins from the mountains. Azog will probably be featured in the initial attack on the armies of the Elves, Men and Dwarves; Bolg will lead the reinforcements and arrive on the scene just in time to see his father killed in action. That's my best guess.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Feb 14 2014, 3:48pm

Post #3 of 10 (259 views)
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But isn't Azog just a henchman of the Necromancer? [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Bolg to me isnt major, as he is just a henchman of azog



Elutherian
Rohan


Feb 14 2014, 3:54pm

Post #4 of 10 (285 views)
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The Witch-King [In reply to] Can't Post

I think he will feature much more prominently in TABA.

Smaug will hopefully be dealt with right off the bat.

Sauron will be the main antagonist in Dol Guldur, with Azog leading the armies to the Lonely Mountain. Bolg will likely join him there as well.

But I think the main link between Dol Guldur and The Battle of the Five Armies might be the Witch-King who is sent by a retreating Sauron to deal with the fight for Erebor.

You also have to take into account The Master of Laketown and Alfrid who will play a lesser, more corrupt than evil, role.

If you stack the number of villains, and the magnitude of their role in TABA to ROTK I think it'll go something like this:

1. ROTK/TABA - Saruman (and Grima) are taken care of at the start/Smaug is taken care of at the start.
2. ROTK/TABA - Sauron waits in Mordor until the ring is destroyed/Sauron waits in Dol Guldur until he is forced retreat.
3. ROTK/TABA - Gothmog leads attack on Minas Tirith/Azog (and Bolg) lead attack on Erebor.
4. ROTK/TABA - The Witch-King overseas the proceedings until he is killed by Eowyn/The Witch-King overseas the proceedings until he is driven back by [Insert Character Here].
5. ROTK/TABA - Denethor loses his mind and ends up burning in his own pyre/The Master (and Alfrid) plot against Bard and others but end up losing and probably getting karmic payback.

The Grey Pilgrim, they once called me. Three hundred lives of men I walked this earth, and now I have no time...

(This post was edited by Elutherian on Feb 14 2014, 3:56pm)


Elizabeth
Valinor


Feb 14 2014, 10:02pm

Post #5 of 10 (200 views)
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Don't need the Witch King in TABA. [In reply to] Can't Post

He's not needed, and not enough groundwork has been laid (just the sword, which IMO hasn't been well-integrated in the plot at all). He will be developed adequately in LotR.

So far in TH, Azog is the Necromancer's principal hench-orc, with Bolg beneath him. They are perfectly capable of leading an army to Bo5A and doing what needs to be done.








Noria
Rohan

Feb 15 2014, 1:19pm

Post #6 of 10 (139 views)
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I think that the Witch King will appear [In reply to] Can't Post

It seems to me that there has been too much overt foreshadowing about the Nazgul and the Witch King for that not to happen.

I would rather they appeared only at Dol Guldur but with the orc army marching out, anything could happen.

But IMO Azog and Bolg would be villainous leaders enough at the BoFA.


BalrogTrainer
Rivendell

Feb 16 2014, 1:46am

Post #7 of 10 (100 views)
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Of course... [In reply to] Can't Post

... I don't think the Witch-king was developed that adequately in LOTR. After all, he's not singled out until about a third of the way through "King"; until that point he's pretty much interchangeable with the other 8... and that sorta made his death at Eowyn's hands seem less significant than it was. Just something that kinda got lost in the shuffle, I guess.


There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Feb 16 2014, 5:29am

Post #8 of 10 (101 views)
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But as PJ and Philippa pointed out [In reply to] Can't Post

The sword that Gandalf has in his possession that is the Witch King's sword, the same one that stabs Frodo on Weathertop, needs to get back into the Witch King's hands at some point in There & Back Again right?

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Feb 16 2014, 2:45pm

Post #9 of 10 (69 views)
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Well, it's more of a long knife or dagger [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The sword that Gandalf has in his possession that is the Witch King's sword, the same one that stabs Frodo on Weathertop, needs to get back into the Witch King's hands at some point in There & Back Again right?



Otherwise, correct.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Feb 16 2014, 5:38pm

Post #10 of 10 (81 views)
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I'm sure [In reply to] Can't Post

 it didn't matter to Frodo what kind of blade he was stabbed with. Tongue

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas

 
 

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