Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Beyond the Romantic- a different take on the starlight conversation and Kili's reaction to it
First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Jan 17 2014, 9:28pm

Post #26 of 48 (532 views)
Shortcut
The White Council... [In reply to] Can't Post

...and the basic structure of the Dol Guldur storyline hasn't exactly been "written into" it though. Even though it was only mentioned in passing in the original story, it came from Tolkien. Even the idea of making Galadriel into Gandalf's staunchest ally has its roots in Tolkien.

The Kili/Tauriel thing, I don't think is going to fit into Tolkien's world, at least not my vision of it. More power to you if you liked it, but I didn't.


bowencm
Rivendell


Jan 17 2014, 9:55pm

Post #27 of 48 (522 views)
Shortcut
Agreed. [In reply to] Can't Post

Overdone and made into something I don't believe it is supposed to be, imo. I like this take on the conversation and interaction.

Thanks!


iduna
Rivendell


Jan 17 2014, 10:18pm

Post #28 of 48 (503 views)
Shortcut
I think the relationship between elves and dwarves should be complex [In reply to] Can't Post

They've had to deal with one another for eons, and I don't think it is as interesting if the feelings are always the same all the time.

Even though elves and dwarves don't get along, they can't get away from one another.

I think that it's most logical for their opinions to seesaw back and forth between understanding and prejudice, enmity and friendship, depending on the individuals and the circumstances at the time.


Bladerunner
Gondor


Jan 17 2014, 10:35pm

Post #29 of 48 (432 views)
Shortcut
I agree... [In reply to] Can't Post

We have gotten a better feel for everday life in The Shire, Bree, Rohan, Gondor, Lake-town, and even Dale, but as of yet not so much for Rivendell, Lothlorien and the elves of Mirkwood (nor of Erebor or Moria for that matter.
It would be nice to see a glimpse of the elves interacting on a more social level. Perhaps we'll see more of the Elven feast and of Rivendell on the return journey.


In Reply To

A chance to see the
Extent... of his Vast
Empire?
A Huge Chorus song in
Elvish would be amazing?

So far, his Kingdom
seemed pretty
Empty?

More Elves..PJ?
.




Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Jan 17 2014, 10:49pm

Post #30 of 48 (456 views)
Shortcut
Absolutely [In reply to] Can't Post

Real Life is made up of dissonances and Tolkien is full of it as I have referred to elsewhere. We all of us have a unique persecutive on what we believe is "In The Spirit Of Tolkien" Some of us clearly believe that the dialogue between T&K is of Tolkien whereas I also recognise when elements are more about communicating to a global audience in the 21st century. The trousers remark is an example of dialogue and the make shift sleighs that get into the action scenes are of now not of Tolkien but for me they are a small part of a much more imaginative and achieving whole.

My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.

(This post was edited by Michelle Johnston on Jan 17 2014, 10:51pm)


Rowan Greene
Lorien


Jan 17 2014, 10:56pm

Post #31 of 48 (424 views)
Shortcut
Oh, I hope so... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd much rather have seen Bilbo wandering through Thranduil's halls looking for an escape (and stealing some food) than listening to the Kili and Tauriel nonsense that did next to nothing to advance the plot.

I'd love to see more of Thranduil and his halls to include the feast and our unlikely hero Hobbit making himself at home.


In Reply To
In the EE..

While our
Dwarves are imprisoned
Downstairs?

Could be a way to Expand the
TimeLine in
Thranduiel's Halls!

It does seem that it too
is a Deleted Scene...

(Invisible Bilbo, Pilfering Food?)

A chance to see the
Extent... of his Vast
Empire?
A Huge Chorus song in
Elvish would be amazing?

So far, his Kingdom
seemed pretty
Empty?

More Elves..PJ?

Bomby puts
That on his
Wish List
for the EE.




(This post was edited by Rowan Greene on Jan 17 2014, 10:57pm)


Rowan Greene
Lorien


Jan 17 2014, 11:00pm

Post #32 of 48 (483 views)
Shortcut
AGREED *book spoilers* [In reply to] Can't Post

And while the conversation may have sounded Tolkien, the exchange/scene did next to nothing to move the plot forward. Why not show us Bilbo wandering around looking for an escape route or Bilbo stealing food from the feasting elves. Now that would have been interesting and also fitting with events (from the book) that should occur in TABA. (Bilbo giving the necklace to Thranduil after the Bo5A as payment for his hospitality, etc.)

And as we've discussed before, I completely agree about the Gimli/Legolas bridging the gap issue. This Kili/Tauriel nonsense diminishes that along with the Gimli/Galadriel scene.


In Reply To
...that the whole "Eldar/starlight" conversation did sound very Tolkien, but the Tauriel/Kili dynamic still does not sit right with me. Gimli and Legolas were the ones who bridged the gap between the Dwarven and Elven races, not Kili and Tauriel. In my opinion there should have been nothing but enmity between the Elves and Dwarves in this trilogy.




(This post was edited by Rowan Greene on Jan 17 2014, 11:01pm)


Meneldor
Tol Eressea


Jan 17 2014, 11:51pm

Post #33 of 48 (473 views)
Shortcut
Gasp! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Tolkien is full of it as I have referred to elsewhere.





NARF!
Wink


They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters; These see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep.


marillaraina
Rohan


Jan 18 2014, 12:07am

Post #34 of 48 (415 views)
Shortcut
Agree. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
They've had to deal with one another for eons, and I don't think it is as interesting if the feelings are always the same all the time.

Even though elves and dwarves don't get along, they can't get away from one another.

I think that it's most logical for their opinions to seesaw back and forth between understanding and prejudice, enmity and friendship, depending on the individuals and the circumstances at the time.


I agree. To me it seems far more understandable than saying everyone hated each other all the time for thousands of years. IMO of course on an individual level dwarves and elves may have had far more complex relationships than that and some of them may even have gotten a long.

I still don't see how it possibly takes anything away from Legolas and Gimli. Whatever happens to Tauriel, Kili is going to die, they never get to be anything more than a possibility in terms of what it could have meant for dwarf/elf relations after BOFA. That doesn't mean it's not a worthwhile thing to show, even events and relationships that don't work out or are cut short still have worth, even if it's only for the loss of potential it shows but still the potential hope in the future.

Something which Legolas and Gimli more than fulfil with their great friendship.


Elciryamo
Rivendell

Jan 18 2014, 3:23am

Post #35 of 48 (420 views)
Shortcut
Agree, especially regarding the impact of Kili and Tauriel [In reply to] Can't Post

There are some dumb moments between Tauriel and Kili, perhaps reflecting a lack of trust in the audience to understand the two. But, Tauriel and Kili are just more characters having lives going on even as the story unfolds.

I think one aspect that works for me is the fact that they are character scenes. The story doesn't have to be constantly moving for me to be engaged if the characters are engaging and interesting. This might be the breaking point for some, who don't engage either Kili or Tauriel or both. Characters cannot really work if the audience is not engaged in their situation and their plight.

As for the "romance" I don't see it as romance or a detraction. I actually see it as more a foundation, laying the work for the tragedy of Kili's end. I mean, he has not discussed his mother to anyone else, not even Bilbo. Is his character diminished now that the fact that he has a mother waiting for him is revealed? Or, does it make him more easy to identify with and enhance his character more?

This might not have been PJ and Co's intention but I think the Tauriel and Kili scenes do more to enhance Kili's character than to Tauriel's.


In Reply To

In Reply To
They've had to deal with one another for eons, and I don't think it is as interesting if the feelings are always the same all the time.

Even though elves and dwarves don't get along, they can't get away from one another.

I think that it's most logical for their opinions to seesaw back and forth between understanding and prejudice, enmity and friendship, depending on the individuals and the circumstances at the time.


I agree. To me it seems far more understandable than saying everyone hated each other all the time for thousands of years. IMO of course on an individual level dwarves and elves may have had far more complex relationships than that and some of them may even have gotten a long.

I still don't see how it possibly takes anything away from Legolas and Gimli. Whatever happens to Tauriel, Kili is going to die, they never get to be anything more than a possibility in terms of what it could have meant for dwarf/elf relations after BOFA. That doesn't mean it's not a worthwhile thing to show, even events and relationships that don't work out or are cut short still have worth, even if it's only for the loss of potential it shows but still the potential hope in the future.

Something which Legolas and Gimli more than fulfil with their great friendship.



Arthael
Lorien


Jan 18 2014, 6:02am

Post #36 of 48 (398 views)
Shortcut
One of my favorite moments [In reply to] Can't Post

And it's so far my favorite music of the trilogy, except for maybe the dwarves' rendition of Misty Mountains Cold. I wish any other musical moment in DoS had the same power. Sadly, the rest of the soundtrack bores me.

"There are no safe paths in this part of the world. Remember you are over the Edge of the Wild, and in for all sorts of fun wherever you go."


Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Jan 18 2014, 8:16am

Post #37 of 48 (361 views)
Shortcut
I have no idea what point you are making [In reply to] Can't Post

Tolkien used dissonance to great effect indeed it is a central tenant of most story telling. Its simply that he cast it within a grand mythological setting so the dissonances were that much richer.


In Reply To

In Reply To
Tolkien is full of it as I have referred to elsewhere.





NARF!
Wink


My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Jan 18 2014, 3:32pm

Post #38 of 48 (318 views)
Shortcut
I think he's just joking around, not making a point [In reply to] Can't Post

He was taking you're statement "Tolkien is full of it" out of it's original context in an attempt to make a funny. Just some light-hearted, friendly humor is all.Smile


In Reply To
Tolkien used dissonance to great effect indeed it is a central tenant of most story telling. Its simply that he cast it within a grand mythological setting so the dissonances were that much richer.


In Reply To

In Reply To
Tolkien is full of it as I have referred to elsewhere.





NARF!
Wink



"And we find what we're made of
Through the open door
Is it fear you're afraid of?
What are you waiting for?
Love alone is worth the fight."
-Switchfoot


Meneldor
Tol Eressea


Jan 18 2014, 6:05pm

Post #39 of 48 (280 views)
Shortcut
I was joking [In reply to] Can't Post

but sometimes I'm not as funny as I think I am. No offense was intended to anyone.


They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters; These see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep.


patrickk
Rohan

Jan 18 2014, 8:53pm

Post #40 of 48 (259 views)
Shortcut
Nice irony really... [In reply to] Can't Post

...some of us have had an irony by-pass to early in our lives (sad, sniff!!!)


Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


Jan 18 2014, 9:48pm

Post #41 of 48 (247 views)
Shortcut
I thought it was funny! But I'm always looking for the humor in things...stuff...life. =) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

**********************************

NABOUF
Not a TORns*b!
Certified Curmudgeon
Knitting Knerd
NARF: NWtS Chapter Member since June 17,2011


Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Jan 19 2014, 5:52am

Post #42 of 48 (224 views)
Shortcut
Not a problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Using irony and sarcasm are part of my face to face vocabulary but being ancient I do not understand all the abbreviations and internet slang that people use !!

My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.


Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Jan 19 2014, 5:59am

Post #43 of 48 (270 views)
Shortcut
The Rush To Erebor [In reply to] Can't Post

I think you get to the root of the challenge for PPF. The movie starts with T and B reconciled and Gandalf in reverse gear and off to the High Fells. So what do you between then and Erebor to build character and lay the foundations for the BOFA. You tie Beorn into Azog, give band width to the Wood Elves who react in varying ways and you make Lake town three dimensional and you up the anti for Kili. In other words your making an investment which will pay off come December 15th or thereabouts.

My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Jan 19 2014, 10:34pm

Post #44 of 48 (227 views)
Shortcut
Plus [In reply to] Can't Post

(as we saw from Frodo's reaction) that enduring the Morgul poison helps the victim step into that realm and become more aware... which is why Kili saw the glow of Tauriel. His perception and understanding will be more accute now.


6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - November 28, 2013
3rd draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observation List - January 2, 2014



sample

"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."

I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!



TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists (updated soon)


annathepiper
Registered User


Jan 21 2014, 3:34pm

Post #45 of 48 (142 views)
Shortcut
Oh, beautiful :) [In reply to] Can't Post

As I've been saying in great depth over on my blog, I am a great big romantic sucker and am pro-Tauriel/Kili. I'm another fan for whom their interaction enhances my understanding of Tolkien, rather than detracting from it; I've never believed that all members of a given race or species in a story have to always behave the same way at all times, and to see Kili interacting thus with Tauriel adds to the growing complexity of my conceptions of the dwarves.

I particularly loved the references to his mother. Yay, Dis!

And I quite liked how the scene ends by showing us that their conversation _continues_, in fact; Kili's launching into a story of one of the incidents on his travels as the camera pans up to Legolas. That's a small detail in the larger scene, but it was still important for me as laying down the groundwork of these two characters becoming at ease with each other.

So I very much like Cirashala's take on it, here.

Cheers all,
Anna

Angela Highland * Angela Korra'ti * angelahighland.com


apariel
The Shire


Jan 21 2014, 10:09pm

Post #46 of 48 (112 views)
Shortcut
fully agreed, it resonantes strongly with me as well - thou.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I saw the movie three times now, but for me, the idea of a love affair doesn't work...
What I felt, watching this wonderful scene with the beautiful music, is more about a very strong bond and tender love, but in no way a love affair.
The only thing, that makes it a love affair is the shot of Legolas eavesdropping....
I don't know, for me it is more related to the tender and caring love of close family members.
Together with the the fact, that Kili uses a bow to perfection and that he is rather tall for a dwarf...
And also - close to death - he thinks of the previous conversation - or stories he heard about someone else.
Maybe ... maybe there was a love affair a long time ago...

I can't wait to see the third movie, and - honestly - I'm very keen to see, how this plays out in the end.

..." we are sitting on a field of victory,..."Smile



Ashwise
Registered User

Jan 28 2014, 4:31am

Post #47 of 48 (57 views)
Shortcut
.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I like your interpretation of the scene. I wonder if that's what made Kili fall for her...the wistful awakening of the elves, but also a different interpretation of starlight since Kili mentions to her his point of view that he always thought of starlight as cold and then Tauriel offers her poetic view of it, which really casts a deep impression about his view on the matter.


Cirashala
Grey Havens


Jan 28 2014, 4:47am

Post #48 of 48 (63 views)
Shortcut
I think it's definitely one of the things that intrigued him about her [In reply to] Can't Post

 


First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.