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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Peter Jackson and The Desolation of Progress
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The Shire

Jan 5 2014, 11:44pm

Post #76 of 94 (331 views)
HEY [In reply to] Can't Post

HI :)Wink

The Shire

Jan 5 2014, 11:46pm

Post #77 of 94 (321 views)
galadriel [In reply to] Can't Post

galadrial evil acts. possesses constipated face

The Shire

Jan 5 2014, 11:47pm

Post #78 of 94 (311 views)
LOTR [In reply to] Can't Post



Jan 5 2014, 11:51pm

Post #79 of 94 (318 views)
Yes, I believe it may be [In reply to] Can't Post

In Reply To
I was wondering if the rather diverse make-up of Laketown in DOS was a response to the criticism of the filmmakers post-LOTR for not featuring more diversity in the background casting

Absolutely. That's exactly how it struck me.

"I have walked there sometimes, beyond the forest and up into the night. I have seen the world fall away and the white light of forever fill the air."

Rowan Greene

Jan 6 2014, 12:50am

Post #80 of 94 (307 views)
Waking up next to Thranduil... [In reply to] Can't Post

Now you're talking... Wink

Rowan Greene

Jan 6 2014, 1:05am

Post #81 of 94 (286 views)
Agreed... [In reply to] Can't Post

My issues are primarily with deviations from the source material, namely the inclusion of incongruous story arcs. I'm not really bothered by the use of green screen.

And I also don't understand the OP's comments about Galadriel*...at all. "Frigidity"? Her portrayal onscreen matches Tolkien's description of her in the books, and I don't equate elves with "frigidity." Elves were essentially perfect creatures and thus they're physically beautiful, ethereal, wise, and generally slender/lithe beings. I personally think Jackson nailed the appearances for the various ME races, especially in the LoTR movies. I have some issues with some of the DoS dwarves not being very dwarvish, but overall, he honored Tolkien's descriptions of primary characters.

*Sadly, I don't understand what the OP is saying in the majority of her posts. Unsure

In Reply To
...but they mostly stem from a story-telling perspective. I generally dislike it when Jackson starts adding in his own plot-lines and things like that. The prominent use of green-screen is not something that bugs me as much as it bugs others.

As for Galadriel; what exactly is offensive about a blond Elf from the books being portrayed as a blond Elf in the films? I do not at all get how anyone would be offended by this. Crazy

(This post was edited by Rowan Greene on Jan 6 2014, 1:20am)


Jan 6 2014, 2:33am

Post #82 of 94 (262 views)
My cousin would love to wake up to Thranduil [In reply to] Can't Post

Heh, I'd like to see a moment if Thranduil comes to Laketown and one of Bard's daughters starts to fancy him, and he gives a look of disgust or something.


Jan 6 2014, 3:07am

Post #83 of 94 (268 views)
I must respectfully disagree [In reply to] Can't Post

Jackson put his health in danger putting everything he could into the making of these Hobbit movies, just look at the pre-filming and post-filming pictures.

PJ, along with James Cameron, and others are pioneers in the film industry, and are using technology to make it better, not just for the sake of technology. Their films are allowing people like myself to immerse themselves into the movie like never before, because the experience is so real and you feel like you are right inside the movie...a part of it. I am no longer used to the age old 24fps judder and blur that are on the screen during action scenes or scenes with panning, and I definitely don't want to go backwards into black and white. I love how they have perfected the green screen to the point where you don't know if it was a set, a real life background or a green screen, and because it is so good now, I don't care or think about what is green screened or not. Movie experiences have never been more real or more thrilling, and PJ's latest films are just examples of how awesome cinema is becoming. For me 3D HFR is the best there has ever been, and PJ has done more justice to these films than I could have ever imagined. I'll leave it up to individual people who have read the book and understand film making to decide if he did the book or Tolkien's work justice, but for me who has never read the book, I have only been completely blown away by movies a few times and PJ's latest works, along with Cameron's Avatar, the Harry Potter movies, and latest Star Wars films make the cut for me.
I can respect that these movies came from Tolkien, that the films never would have been made without him, and I am grateful for that original genius of creation he gave us, but I love & respect mostly these movies first & foremost, PJ, the screen writers, and everyone who contributed to these movies. There is no devastation here with these films, but rather a desolation of stagnant old school film making that made us become so used to blur & judder, and a 2 dimensional reality. PJ offers a near 4th dimension experience with how he made these latest films.
PJ's films have as much art, heart, sweat, soul and vision in them as any films of old...IMHO


"The last words Albus Dumbledore spoke to the pair of us?
Harry is the best hope we have. Trust him."

(This post was edited by sphdle1 on Jan 6 2014, 3:11am)

Tol Eressea

Jan 6 2014, 3:22am

Post #84 of 94 (240 views)
Couldn't agree with ya more, sphdle1. // [In reply to] Can't Post


Arthur: What manner of man are you that can summon up fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: I... am an enchanter.
Arthur: By what name are you known?
Tim: There are some who call me... 'Tim'...?
Arthur: ...greetings, Tim the Enchanter.

Tol Eressea

Jan 6 2014, 3:32am

Post #85 of 94 (233 views)
nice horse on your avatar btw! [In reply to] Can't Post

you like my new signature? Wink

 photo 1bf768b4-0b33-420d-9c59-41ea3cf03def_zps1d44c4cf.jpg


Jan 6 2014, 3:37am

Post #86 of 94 (236 views)
Technology does not make work easier. [In reply to] Can't Post

You are so right. Even with all of the advancements to help clean a house up, or muck a stable out, it still takes just as long and with as much sweat and blood like it did 50 years ago.


Jan 6 2014, 5:35am

Post #87 of 94 (196 views)
Exactly. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm glad you understand what I'm saying. You totally get it. Spot on. However, I'm unsure how the subject got changed to anything but the art of filmmaking, as that was the subject of the original post and what I was responding to! Hmm, very curious indeed.

"This day we FIGHT!"

Rowan Greene

Jan 6 2014, 10:28am

Post #88 of 94 (178 views)
Thanks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Very much. Can't get enough Thranduil. Smile

In Reply To
you like my new signature? Wink


Jan 6 2014, 3:00pm

Post #89 of 94 (167 views)
I agree also sphdle! Except that I am a Tolkien book lover and I still love these movies. [In reply to] Can't Post

OP, I too am sorry that you donít care for The Hobbit movies but the adaptation of books to movies has been going on for a long time and some are much more extreme than this. Look at all the versions of Pride and Prejudice, all somewhat different.

LotR and The Hobbit are books that could only be made in live action using all the tricks a director can call upon to create the different races and locations of Middle Earth. IMO only the developments of the last couple of decades in computer graphics, motion capture and photography made possible the making of these movies in a way that worked. Times change and new tools are developed in every field of work and life.

In purely visual and sound terms, these films are a delight, IMO. I love how they interweave actual outdoor locations with film sets with digital creations, actors and their live doubles with digital doubles. I donít look for or dwell upon the boundaries between live action and digital enhancements and only occasionally notice them.

Itís clear from the documentaries and video logs that Peter Jackson and his people put their hearts and souls and blood into all these movies. They are pioneers and trailblazers in several ways. Peter Jackson has said that he is trying to make movies that will draw people into the theatre, instead of watching movies on their phones.

The LotR and Hobbit books have been very dear to me for decades and there were things in the movies, especially in LotR, with which I disagreed, much though I loved the movies overall. I also love The Hobbit movies, despite all the changes from the book. I see the original story, Bilboís story, playing out pretty well intact in these films, the difference being that itís one of several plot lines. IMO the Dol Guldur plot line needs to be in the movie and personally I enjoyed the expanded story of the Mirkwood Elves, including Tauriel and Legolas.

In the end the movies are what they are and nothing will change them, even TaBA.


Jan 6 2014, 4:49pm

Post #90 of 94 (165 views)
Bomby stays away from these... [In reply to] Can't Post

Bomby waited almost 50 years (48 years)
to see these.

Bomby realized these Books
would make great Movies
@ Christmas 1966AD

Bomby then, realized Movies
about these would be

without the Un-Imaginable? (at the Time..)
Infinitely, Vast Progress
of Fantasy Cinema

Moving all of us.. a long
40+ years into the
Future of Cinema

A First Responder
could not be more pleased.

with PJ&CO's Result

Words & Worlds are like a
Beautiful Border around everything
Sees..& Hears

& AS the High Lama
said in Shangri-La

"Sometimes you glimpse the Eternal..."



Jan 6 2014, 5:17pm

Post #91 of 94 (143 views)
it's lonely at the top [In reply to] Can't Post

"Sometimes I think that PJ just can't win, regardless of what he does."

The price of success. If PJ's movies were bombing, nobody would pay an attention. IMO it's wonderful he has worked for more diversity at Laketown - which is logical considering it is a trading center (or was) but if he hadn't, I still wouldn't think it would be an issue considering Tolkien's influences, culture, etc. that have been so well documented in other posts.

It's also logical that PJ & co. would come up with a fresh idea for an orc main character, as opposed to more Uruk Hai types, as well as different populations of wargs. Just more hard work and commitment from the whole of PJ's team.

PS. And for the OP, who I think may have been implying re CGI etc. no-one goes to a theater in the U.S. and everything's Netflix.

Er, I've seen DOS in theaters over 10 times at this point. Not once do I remember was I not lost in the film. I do remember thinking often, tho, that I wish I could freeze this scene, right now, just so I could stare in awe a bit longer, for instance at the beautiful interior of the elven halls - which are CGI. And utterly gorgeous.

If a movie is worth going to in the U.S., people go. And it's not as tho profit for a film isn't generated from DVD/rentals anyway - home and computer viewing is just another asset and a useful one re films, especially for some aged, ill, and homebound who cannot physically handle getting into or dealing with a theater. Why should those people be denied the pleasure of seeing movies because it is not as "artful" of a way to view them?


Jan 7 2014, 2:39am

Post #92 of 94 (114 views)
Ya I don't get it.... [In reply to] Can't Post

It seems like whenever someone says, "I didn't enjoy the film very much, I would have preferred a more faithful adaptation," there are people who will essentially respond with, "No, you're wrong." The most common reason they seem to give has something to do with the popularity of the movie.

It's like they can't stand the fact that someone else isn't drooling over said movie.

I wonder what the professor himself would think about all these films and whatnot.

In the movies Elrond, Denethor, Haldir, Galadriel, and Celeborn stink.


Jan 7 2014, 3:43am

Post #93 of 94 (103 views)
Awesome post Bomby! ;) // [In reply to] Can't Post



"The last words Albus Dumbledore spoke to the pair of us?
Harry is the best hope we have. Trust him."


Jan 7 2014, 3:59am

Post #94 of 94 (111 views)
You don't need to wonder [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll see if I can find the quote in his letters, but when they sent him the script for the animated LOTR he was quite concerned with the interpretation by the director/writer and his lack of understanding of why people wanted to see an LOTR film so badly. Considering his opinion towards technology, I don't think Tolkien would respond so favourably to the films.

I don't think people need to "drool" over them, any more than they should over ANY film. The Hobbit (or LOTR) don't deserve a pass because they are derived from Tolkien's work.

I have learned, from varied experience, that film adaptation from a book is a mixed bag. The language of film is such that, being a visual medium it requires far more investment of the creator, and less trust in the audience to understand what is being communicated. Many times filmmakers will state that what they meant to do and what is commonly understood are two different things. So, I take adaptations as the filmmaker intended, not just from the work that is being adapted. This, of course, is just my opinion, but being a fan of books like Starship Troopers, and watching the essentially parody film, is hard to swallow.

With the Hobbit, I am afraid that I do not have as must invested in the book. I like the Hobbit because it communicates a similar tone to the book, with a more child-like view rather than the darker, more dire tones of the LOTR trilogy. It also has to take place inside the world of Middle Earth, with direct ties to the events of LOTR but not always clear in the course of events.

I think a direct adaptation is possible, but not as accessible, since some parts in the Hobbit that rely so much on people's imaginations simply will not translate to film. Would I like a more direct adaptation? Maybe, but I just don't know if it would be better received by the audience.

I don't fault anyone for not liking any of these movies, but I think they are much better than they are given credit for.

In Reply To
It seems like whenever someone says, "I didn't enjoy the film very much, I would have preferred a more faithful adaptation," there are people who will essentially respond with, "No, you're wrong." The most common reason they seem to give has something to do with the popularity of the movie.

It's like they can't stand the fact that someone else isn't drooling over said movie.

I wonder what the professor himself would think about all these films and whatnot.

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