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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:

The Shire

Dec 27 2013, 2:06am

Post #1 of 16 (872 views)

i really enjoyed DOS. so please do not take me for a hater. but i also find the way PJ handled orc bands in this movie to be quite sloppy. Orcs traveling quite freely through Ranger territory, Rivendell territory, Woodland Elf territory, Laketown territory, etc. without getting slaughtered. Even Beorn territory felt too easily traveled, though we at least saw him patrolling. and yes i know we saw orcs get killed in Rivendell lands but still some were left to leave. i really do not understand how the orcs were so easily able to get right on the doorstep of the Woodland King's "palace", or whatever the hell you would like to call it. Apparently the Mirkwood elves are as dumb as they are talked up to be in the movie. This was probably my biggest complaint, and i think its simply because in LOTR we are constantly reminded that Orc groups needed to travel fast and take care while camping because of the high risk of endangerment. Also, it really bothered me that the orcs in DOS could travel easily in daylight, which contradicts previous installments. These orcs were apparently damn good trackers because even after escaping their clutches via eagles, the orcs are right on the heel of our merry band of dwarves. /sigh, it just feels lazy. i dunno. i just watched Fellowship the other day and this all just really stood out to me. thoughts? help put my mind at ease?

I'd certainly let Ian McKellen manhandle me.


Dec 27 2013, 2:23am

Post #2 of 16 (490 views)
Quite a few folk [In reply to] Can't Post

agree with you. I saw DoS again today and the ease of orc movement across the lands bothered me, also. Big differences between to the two trilogies. I did something similar and watched the LotR after seeing DoS the first time and it also made me really really appreciate the prosthetics of the Uruk-hai, orcs, goblins, all that (but that's me being nit-picky). Maybe because the war hadn't started yet PJ felt that it would be 'easier' for them to crawl and skulk wherever they wanted? Not a big deal I guess and don't get me wrong, I loved DoS but the more I see it the more these little bits start popping out at me.

The Shire

Dec 27 2013, 3:12am

Post #3 of 16 (395 views)
youre right [In reply to] Can't Post

if you watch the appendices of AUP, you get to see that originally all the gobs in goblin town were prosthetic. after viewing all the behind the scenes one can conclude that time constraint led to the decision to go with cgi for most of the orcs and gobs. azog and bolg were both originally real people. but eventually everything went digital. its a real shame. the realism gets cut short, and realism is something that made the cgi in LOTR a real part of the story.

I'd certainly let Ian McKellen manhandle me.


Dec 27 2013, 3:13am

Post #4 of 16 (426 views)
Thranduil's orders [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it might not be a case of the Mirkwood elves being incompetent, but Thranduil's seeming reluctance to send his warriors beyond his borders. He wouldn't allow Tauriel to destroy the spiders at their source of origin, and he also forbade them from chasing down the orc pack.

Such orders probably allowed easier orc movement around Mirkwood. In addition the corruption and darkness of Mirkwood might have aided the movement of the orcs, at the same time hindering the elves.

However the orcs in Laketown really bothered me. How did they manage to cross the causeway on wargs without getting spotted? They really should have shown a quick scene of the orcs sneaking in and maybe dispatching a guard or two to make it more believable.


Dec 27 2013, 3:16am

Post #5 of 16 (411 views)
Weren't the orcs (other than Bolg and Azog) in DOS real people in costumes and prosthetics? [In reply to] Can't Post

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember some seeing some behind the scenes clips showing orcs in costume. IIRC it was the scene where the orcs arrive at the mouth of the river before the Long Lake.

Dlanor da Great

Dec 27 2013, 3:18am

Post #6 of 16 (411 views)
well....all I can say is.... [In reply to] Can't Post

....stop thinking so hard.
# 1. In Lotr ,orks do travel in day light. they travel in day light through out the ROTK .
#2. Orks are not roaming freely. Its obvious in the movies that the lands are being patrolled and the Orks are engaged when they are discovered. Can a patrol be every where all the time?
#3. It is wierd that the Orks could get so close to the wood kings palace. But
did a kick- ass scene come out of it? .......YES.
Right it off in your head as the Elves screw up sometimes. Orks arent very dangerous if they cant gain the upper hand at least sometimes. Frodo roamed Saurons lands and got away.
Like most action movies, you cant expect everything to make perfect sense.
If every character did things perfectly, then all movies would have little obstacles to overcome. You cant take as much time to explain and plot out every issue in a movie that you can in a book. Alot of People cant seem to accept that movies and books cant be done the same.
#4. As for the Orks tracking the Dwarves quickly after the Eagles flew them out of danger. Well do we know how much time has passed in the movieverse? Orks on fast moving wolves may have tracked down a bunch of short legged Dwarves who were walking and climbing. Might have tracked them for days. Just like Aragorn ,Gimli and Legolas tracked the Uraki in TTT.

So ,do what I do when watching a movie. If something seems dumb, then remember that even in real life alot of things just seems dumb. But there is some kind of explaination if you think about it. Even if its a dumb but possible reason.


Dec 27 2013, 3:41am

Post #7 of 16 (374 views)
Yup... [In reply to] Can't Post

but as ChowdaHead mentioned, some were switched to CGI (I remember seeing that in the behind-the-scenes stuff, too) for time reasons. And the facial motion capture overlays were, for me, too much of a departure. A lot of folk like it and that's great - just not my speed. Smile


Dec 27 2013, 4:52am

Post #8 of 16 (335 views)
Because of the heat in the costume.. [In reply to] Can't Post

...they had people in costume but without a mask and added a CGI head to them.

Tol Eressea

Dec 27 2013, 5:36am

Post #9 of 16 (320 views)
Well, in RotK... [In reply to] Can't Post

# 1. In Lotr ,orks do travel in day light. they travel in day light through out the ROTK .

... when the orcs are out in the day time during the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, they can do so because Sauron is extending his shadow out from Mordor over Pelennor. That's how Tolkien represented it, and in the Appendices for the RotK film i believe some guys from Weta state that that was indeed what they were trying to convey, just not entirely successfully (especially considering much of it was shot in the bright New Zealand sun).

Tol Eressea

Dec 27 2013, 5:49am

Post #10 of 16 (325 views)
The orc captured by the elves [In reply to] Can't Post

and questioned by Thranduil and Legolas is, in my opinion, the only orc in either AUJ or DoS that even comes close to the many awesome and impressive orcs in LotR.

Although Bolg was an improvement over Azog.

7.62 mm FMJ

Dec 27 2013, 7:11am

Post #11 of 16 (288 views)
Thing is [In reply to] Can't Post

The orcs became a bunch of stormtroopers during the dwarf escape sequence in DOS. Seriously, they became complete cannon fodder.

The Shire

Dec 27 2013, 10:05am

Post #12 of 16 (222 views)
well [In reply to] Can't Post

orcs in ROTK were under the shadow of Mordor, as the above poster said. Its canon that normal orcs simply dont blend well with daylight. hence the creation of the Uruk-Hai. and of course Frodo and Sam had a little less trouble trotting through the dark lands. they are two small hobbits, who according to Tolkien can pass by unseen rather well in most instances if they choose to do so. but even those two had a load of trouble getting to that mountain in both the book and movie. i understand its just a movie, but for someone who wants his Hobbit films to fit tonally with his Rings films, this orc thing is a real head scratcher. and i agree the best looking orc i saw was the one who gets beheaded by Thranduil, and even he was cgi in every other shot in the film. i just dont get why they couldnt keep the make upped versions of the orcs for most of the close up shots like in Rings. PJ really has got CGI engrained in his very soul these days.

I'd certainly let Ian McKellen manhandle me.


Dec 27 2013, 2:28pm

Post #13 of 16 (163 views)
Well [In reply to] Can't Post

What does the sun actually do to orcs? They die? Turn to stone? I think not. They just hate the sun and doesn't like being under it. Maybe they get this itching feeling all over their bodies when exposed to the sun?

What does the sun do to the orcs? I think they just rather be in dark places but IF THEY HAVE TO they travel during daylight.

I wanna see a scene where we see Sauron walking the steps INSIDE of Bara-Dur and taking his seat upon his dark throne and summoning the eye, looking into the camera and then BAM! THE END.

-My thoughts on the best ending scene/post credit scene on TABA.


Dec 27 2013, 2:29pm

Post #14 of 16 (179 views)
Suspension of Disbelief [In reply to] Can't Post



Dec 28 2013, 6:15am

Post #15 of 16 (98 views)
During the barrel escape... [In reply to] Can't Post

.... I noticed that when the orcs attack, you first see them coming out from the shade. The sun is at a low level, casting long shadows. Perhaps the weakness of the sun made it easier on the orcs.

'And I name you elf-friend and blessed. May your shadow never grow less (or stealing would be too easy)!'


Dec 28 2013, 7:17am

Post #16 of 16 (97 views)
the orc cannon fodder.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Did manage to kill nearly, if not all the elven guards except legolas and tauriel.

The path of the Warrior is paved in blood, sweat, tears and ultimately death. He weeps for the fallen, bleeds for the cause, and sweats till he dies.
In memory of operation FALLEN ANGEL and the mighty Heroes of SEAL team 6, the PJ's, SOCOM aviation, and all those who fell in the Tangi Valley.
- Task force Warrior will not forget you

(This post was edited by Snowghost77 on Dec 28 2013, 7:19am)


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