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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Who will be the 5th army at BO5A?

TheImaginator
Rivendell

Dec 22 2013, 11:30pm

Post #1 of 17 (888 views)
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Who will be the 5th army at BO5A? Can't Post

So we have Elves, Dwarfs, Men and Orcs as pretty much confirmed. Considering Wargs are, in these adaptions, combined with the Orcs who will the 5th army be?

Eagles are not considered an "army" and I doubt the bats will be counted.

Here are some of my ideas:
- Goblins from Misty Mountains.
Positives about idea: Would be nice to see this as it would make AUJ even more relevant and could be cool to work in a nice revenge subplot.
Negatives: Could be odd to see those Goblins that we saw in AUJ in daytime on battlefield as they seem more feral and not very military. I'm not sure it would work.
- The White Council.
Positives: Could make sense in the plot. After DG subplot, they join battle. Could also look cool visually.
Negatives: They are too few to be considered an army and they would be very overpowered.

Another idea is that PJ changes it to BO4A, but that has less of a ring to it ;)

What do you all think?


TheImaginator
Rivendell

Dec 22 2013, 11:49pm

Post #2 of 17 (535 views)
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Another idea I have: [In reply to] Can't Post

Neutral powers such as Eagles and Beorn are considered one helpful unit and could be considered an army.


book Gandalf
Rohan


Dec 22 2013, 11:56pm

Post #3 of 17 (514 views)
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5? [In reply to] Can't Post

whose to say it will even be a battle of 5 armies? considering the way things are going im pretty sure that this big battle might not heed that name

This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party.


Aitieuriskon
Lorien


Dec 22 2013, 11:58pm

Post #4 of 17 (495 views)
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Why? [In reply to] Can't Post

Why would the eagles not be considered an army?

"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951


tarasaurus
Rohan


Dec 23 2013, 12:10am

Post #5 of 17 (468 views)
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I thought they were [In reply to] Can't Post

considered it as well. And to one of the posts above, it will be called the battle of the 5 armies as the cast and crew have referred to it by that name several times in interviews.


Cirashala
Grey Havens


Dec 23 2013, 4:05am

Post #6 of 17 (343 views)
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they may [In reply to] Can't Post

still count the wargs as a separate army, because I view the orc/warg relationship as more symbiotic and less master/mount.

Gaubdûkhimâ gagin yâkùlib Mahal

May we meet again with the grace of Mahal

"Mizimel. Her name is Mizimel, because children are and always will be the jewel of all jewels. They are the greatest treasure one could ever have."



patrickk
Rohan

Dec 23 2013, 6:57am

Post #7 of 17 (353 views)
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In the book... [In reply to] Can't Post

...the fifth army is the eagles. Orcs and wargs count as one.


DanielLB
Immortal


Dec 23 2013, 7:22am

Post #8 of 17 (341 views)
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No they weren't. [In reply to] Can't Post

From The Clouds Burst:


Quote
"So began a battle that none had expected; and it was called the Battle of Five Armies, and it was very terrible. Upon one side were the Goblins and the wild Wolves, and upon the other were Elves and Men and Dwarves."


But I wouldn't be surprised if, in the films, it turned out to be:

Men
Elves
Dwarves
Orcs of Dol Guldur and Gundabad (Moria/Goblin Town as well) & Wargs
Eagles



patrickk
Rohan

Dec 23 2013, 8:11am

Post #9 of 17 (292 views)
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Interesting... [In reply to] Can't Post

...I was about to go to the book but went to wikapedia instead harrumph, can't trust anything but original sources!!!!


Hamfast Gamgee
Gondor

Dec 23 2013, 9:27am

Post #10 of 17 (275 views)
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Though in that chapter [In reply to] Can't Post

It seems to me as though the Goblins and Wolves are acting as one. I expect all the Wolves were ridden by a Goblin for a start.


triptrap
Lorien

Dec 23 2013, 9:52am

Post #11 of 17 (265 views)
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the eagles i guess [In reply to] Can't Post

because i'm pretty sure orcs and wargs will be counted together.
but i just reaaaaaally hope they don't bring in these stupid goblin town orcs for the battle. even in AUJ they felt completely out of place and are an utter failure as soldiers (in contrary to how they were described in the book >:-( )
i was really happy to see the orc troops marching out of dol guldur IN FULL ARMOR!!! the heavily armored orc troops felt missing a lot until now. i understand that the hunter orcs are clothed lighter for flexibility and agility, though i never understood why the orcs at azanulbizar were shown that way. in my imagination they should have been armed and armored a lot better, but anyway...
i'm really looking forward to the battle and to seeing battle-ready heavy orcs :)


Yngwulff
Gondor


Dec 23 2013, 9:54am

Post #12 of 17 (257 views)
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Eagles [In reply to] Can't Post

Like in the book ....

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.



DanielLB
Immortal


Dec 23 2013, 10:05am

Post #13 of 17 (253 views)
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See my comment above ... [In reply to] Can't Post

Th eagles weren't considered one of the five armies in the book.



Anduril54
The Shire


Dec 23 2013, 3:54pm

Post #14 of 17 (232 views)
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The 5th Army Will Be... [In reply to] Can't Post

The Dunedain! Aragorn hasn't made his cameo yet and this is the perfect way for Viggo to jump back into action!

Seriously though, I think that the 5 armies will be just as in the book. If the Wargs are counted as part of the same army as the orcs, then perhaps we will see orcs from Dol Goldur and orcs from the Misty Mountains as two separate armies. I think the eagles will be shown in a minor capacity much like they were in RoTK during the battle at the Black Gate.


Old Toby
Gondor


Dec 23 2013, 10:04pm

Post #15 of 17 (142 views)
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Pfffftttt!!! You just almost made me spit out my soda laughing!! [In reply to] Can't Post

"The Dunedain! Aragorn hasn't made his cameo yet and this is the perfect way for Viggo to jump back into action!"

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


Cirashala
Grey Havens


Dec 24 2013, 12:00am

Post #16 of 17 (116 views)
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I think the difference [In reply to] Can't Post

regarding the Moria/Gundabad orcs at the battle of Azanulbizar (given that the 7 year war of dwarves/orcs was condensed to one battle) weren't expecting an all out battle, and were not prepared.

Whereas the orcs from Dol Guldur were specifically prepared for war, and Sauron had been preparing for some time. That would explain why they had full armor.

Gaubdûkhimâ gagin yâkùlib Mahal

May we meet again with the grace of Mahal

"Mizimel. Her name is Mizimel, because children are and always will be the jewel of all jewels. They are the greatest treasure one could ever have."



Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Dec 24 2013, 4:11am

Post #17 of 17 (111 views)
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I could get behind adding in the Misty Mountain Goblins... [In reply to] Can't Post

That would mean that at least part of Tolkien's version of the Battle of Five Armies made it into the film. In the book, if you recall, there were two reasons for the Goblin attack - first, as revenge for the killing of the Great Goblin, and second, because they heard Smaug was dead and hoped to plunder Erebor. Having the Goblins out for revenge for the Great Goblin's death would be great to see.


Quote
Could be odd to see those Goblins that we saw in AUJ in daytime on battlefield as they seem more feral and not very military. I'm not sure it would work.


The bats serve the same purpose as Sauron's fumes at the Battle of Pelennor Fields - to block out the light of the sun for the Orcs. So even if the battle happens during the day, the Goblins should be fine as long as the bats are doing their part.

 
 

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