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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Only thing I'm worried about ( Tauriel . . .( Spoilers)
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Eleniel
Grey Havens


Dec 6 2013, 7:43am

Post #26 of 40 (249 views)
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Ughh!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Did anyone watch this video interview with EL?

http://watch.accesshollywood.com/...iangle/2893319385001

She insists PJ wrote in the love triangle well after principal photography was finished - and despite her stipulating she would only take the job if there was no romance in the storyline - looks like she got double-crossed!

But I'd still like to know how much of these sorts of changes and insertions into the script are actually PJ's ideas, and how much is a result of pressure from WB suits who saw the rough cut and said "this is what the film needs..."


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Į Victoria Monfort


Glorfindela
Valinor


Dec 6 2013, 11:12am

Post #27 of 40 (225 views)
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If this is correct, it sounds truly dire [In reply to] Can't Post

Awful, along with the idea of a human-looking 'Dwarf'.


In Reply To
"They share one of the longest dialogue scenes in the film. It's actually a pretty scene, I wish there were similar scenes amongst the other characters. Something lacking with the film is the quieter character moments. He seems to be more interested in action.

But the romance does bloom, and during her scene of healing him (not Bard's child as some predicted), he pronounces his love for her.

This scene was tacky. For me more so because of the set-up and it's place in the story more than anything else."

PJ&co...for the first time in ME history, have REALLY screwed up in my opinion....I am quite forgiving, but really....Mad

I have been more than willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, but she is most definitely a very badly written Mary Sue now....



Glorfindela
Valinor


Dec 6 2013, 11:20am

Post #28 of 40 (215 views)
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Yes, I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

To me, both in the book and in the film, there was absolutely no question of any 'romance' between Gimli and Galadriel. Gimli (an appropriate-looking Dwarf, not a human with designer stubble, as you say) was enchanted with Galadriel from afar Ė as if drawn to a very precious and beautiful object. There was nothing 'un-Tolkien' about this little plot line and it was entirely fitting with the larger theme.


In Reply To
But silly flirting scenes between the "hot" dwarf and one of the only women in all of the movies does.

Like others have said, Gimli was enchanted with Galadriel's grace and beauty, against his entire cultural upbringing as a dwarf (a proper dwarf). It wasn't some goofy flirtation or crush with a very human-looking dwarf with long, flowing hair and Don Johnson stubble. It all seems very calculated and, in my opinion, quite cheezy.

And, it was written by Tolkien, and represented larger themes that were running throughout the books. Not some invented romance with no justification other than to, at best, give these characters something to do, or, at worst, designed to draw in a certain segment of the audience. Either way, i'm not buying it



Arannir
Valinor


Dec 6 2013, 11:22am

Post #29 of 40 (229 views)
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I have written this in another thread... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
I mean it does make sense for Tauriel to be in one way or the other "amazed" by the dwarves, as she complains about the isolationism of her people and how they hide underground.

Even as the head of the guard she may not have seen very much other than the area surrounding the Halls and since Greenwood is becoming less and less friendly that probably isn't that awesome to begin with.

So there is that whole new culture that steps into her life which she probably knows mainly from tales (not the most friendly tales, too).

And in Kili she might recognize one among the Company who is also not that stubborn when it comes to the ancient feuds and curious about another race.


I think there are many ways this can play out nicely and not un-tolkienesque.


And it might be of interest here.


Also, I think one reason why they push it so far (including Kili apparantly declaring his affection) is that they want to raise the tension leading up to the moment when we almost get a battle among the Free Peoples of Middle-earth ( always thought THAT is the core moment of TH, not Smaug).

It is pretty obvious now that there will be a rift within the Dwarven Company as well in TABA - not just between them and all the others - with Balin questioning Thorin and Kili obviously making experiences with Elves that will make him be torn between his loyality to his uncle and the fact that he "knows better".


All the hints by Armitage, Lilly and others that PJ & Co already build up a lot for the lead-up to the Bot5A in DoS seem to back that up.


ďAll good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."

(This post was edited by Arannir on Dec 6 2013, 11:25am)


Noria
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 1:40pm

Post #30 of 40 (202 views)
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As with every other rumour, Iíll wait and see. [In reply to] Can't Post

While I am not thrilled about the idea of a Tauriel/Kili romance, Iím not going to worry about it or decide in advance that Iím going to hate it or the character of Tauriel herself. In fact, from what I've seen of Lilly and her performance, I expect to quite like her and am interested to see her story.

But even if I didn't feel that way, I still would not make up my mind before I see DoS. For me, and I stress for me, that would be setting up that storyline and the movie as a whole to fail.

I know that there will be things I donít care for in DoS, just as there were in all its predecessors. This could just be one of those things. Or maybe I'll love it. Wink

Actually, Iím not entirely sure how serious Lilly was. It was pretty indiscreet.


marillaraina
Rohan


Dec 6 2013, 4:21pm

Post #31 of 40 (185 views)
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subject [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

Quote
I mean it does make sense for Tauriel to be in one way or the other "amazed" by the dwarves, as she complains about the isolationism of her people and how they hide underground.

Even as the head of the guard she may not have seen very much other than the area surrounding the Halls and since Greenwood is becoming less and less friendly that probably isn't that awesome to begin with.

So there is that whole new culture that steps into her life which she probably knows mainly from tales (not the most friendly tales, too).

And in Kili she might recognize one among the Company who is also not that stubborn when it comes to the ancient feuds and curious about another race.


I think there are many ways this can play out nicely and not un-tolkienesque.


And it might be of interest here.


Also, I think one reason why they push it so far (including Kili apparantly declaring his affection) is that they want to raise the tension leading up to the moment when we almost get a battle among the Free Peoples of Middle-earth ( always thought THAT is the core moment of TH, not Smaug).

It is pretty obvious now that there will be a rift within the Dwarven Company as well in TABA - not just between them and all the others - with Balin questioning Thorin and Kili obviously making experiences with Elves that will make him be torn between his loyality to his uncle and the fact that he "knows better".


All the hints by Armitage, Lilly and others that PJ & Co already build up a lot for the lead-up to the Bot5A in DoS seem to back that up.


I agree, I actually think it sounds like it fits very well with some of the themes of the films and it sounds kind of sweet and I don't even normally like romances, no matter who it involves(in fact if it involves a character I like I tend to be even more against it). No one may want to believe me but it's true. :)

It makes sense for it to be these two who connect because it sounds like in some ways they are rather similar, per their descriptions both are young for their respective kind, both tend to be a little reckless, both are a bit more open minded, but both are good hearted, etc.


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Dec 7 2013, 2:00am

Post #32 of 40 (123 views)
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I know what you mean [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
PJ&co...for the first time in ME history, have REALLY screwed up in my opinion....I am quite forgiving, but really....


I thought he did great with The Lord of the Rings. I also enjoyed The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey despite some of the silliness. This time, I think Jackson & Co screwed up. At least you're forgiving. Sadly I'm not.


Quote
I have been more than willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, but she is most definitely a very badly written Mary Sue now....


I always thought/knew Tauriel was a very badly written Mary Sue. Unlike you though, I never gave her the benefit of the doubt. I wonder how I'll react when I go see The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug.


Cirashala
Grey Havens


Dec 7 2013, 6:12am

Post #33 of 40 (112 views)
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after I heard about the love triangle [In reply to] Can't Post

I did the mary sue litmus test and guess what? She got a score of 94! Anything above 50 in that test is a badly written mary sue!

As for forgiving, I was forgiving of stuff up to this point. But the love triangle and the healing Kili in the manner of Arwen was just far too much....

I REALLY hope my fears are unfounded, much like I heard a lot of people bashing the rumored Aragorn/Eowyn romance but it ended up being appropriate and well done cinematically (I wasn't even aware of who Tolkien WAS until 6 years ago, so that's going based on what people who were on here back in LOTR days are saying...)

If it's not then I will have to try and be open minded (because I am not getting anything different regardless) and hope that it's only a limited amount of screentime....or just fast forward through it Wink

But Kili happens to be my favorite character (as is Fili, though I like movie Kili slightly more), and was LONG before I heard they were making TH movie and Kili's design was released. The reason for it isn't "hot dwarf" syndrome but rather a lot of things in common with the character- book Kili plays violin, and I have played for 17 years now, I was learning a sword and bow (his main weapons) before TH, and there are many other traits in common as well. In fact, in that recent "which character in TH are you" quiz, which was nearly impossible to "cheat" given the design of the questions, I ended up being Kili. No joke.

Since Laketown was supposed to be very important to his character, I am really hoping it works better than I have heard. Otherwise I will be quite miffed, just like I would be if Gandalf were to be a wuss in Dol Guldur and Galadriel were to be Xena in the exact same scenario....


Maybe I should just avoid the reviews and enjoy the clips and other spoilers like that so I don't have my enjoyment hampered by one person's negativity....

Race is meaningless. We all bleed red-no matter who or what we are. What matters is the heart. For each race has those with good hearts and those with bad hearts. You have a good heart. You do not deserve to die.


LadyEmmaE
Bree


Dec 7 2013, 12:33pm

Post #34 of 40 (96 views)
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As long as it doesn't turn out to be like a Mary Sue fanfiction... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think i'm okay with a bit of flirting, winking and suggestions here and there.

I'm looking forward to seeing Tauriel kick some butt in these movies! I want to fall in love with her and think wow she's cool! I want her to simply walk into Mordor and be like "I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass....but I'm all out of bubblegum".

But if she ends up like all the OC's in the fanfiction realm...*shudders* Laugh You know what I'm saying? Tragic back story, love triangles and all that. Bleh! Hehe. We shall soon see though, won't we?
Wink


DavidDevant
Lorien

Dec 7 2013, 12:41pm

Post #35 of 40 (89 views)
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I haven't seen [In reply to] Can't Post

Any silly flirting scenes or goofy ones for that matter so I don't have anything to base a response on. Which flirtatious lines are you thinking of?


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Dec 7 2013, 5:48pm

Post #36 of 40 (75 views)
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Oh no, there might be a love triangle? [In reply to] Can't Post

So Tauriel got a 94? Why did they add her in? I agree with you, I hope my fears are unfounded. I don't want a love triangle. And I hope they don't downplay Kili. It's cool he's your favorite character, and it sounds like you really do have a lot in common. Now I'm starting to respect Kili even more. I hope he gets his time to shine in the films (as he should) without any interference from Tauriel.
The love triangle...Let me guess, it's between Tauriel, Kili and Legolas, isn't it? Mad


Cirashala
Grey Havens


Dec 7 2013, 10:05pm

Post #37 of 40 (58 views)
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yup [In reply to] Can't Post

Evangeline Lilly confirmed it in a recent interview. And that was after she had specifically stated her only condition for taking the job was NO love triangle. But when she got back for pickups, guess what? Mad By that point the principal photography was already done and there was no getting out of the movie for her....so they totally blackballed her on that one. At least it's nice that the actress didn't want it either.

I have no idea why they added her in. I think had they done the litmus test and tried to make her less MS (and not added the stupid triangle-and you are correct it's Legolas likes her but Kili likes her and it sounds like it may be reciprocated because she apparently goes after the company because she hears he got poisoned with morgul poison-no I am not making this up it was according to dcole in a couple threads above who said he saw the movie).

I hope that they don't shoehorn him in just as the prince/love interest too Crazy There was an excellent article done on thorinoakenshield.net that summarizes my feelings about Thorin/Fili/Kili as well:

http://thorinoakenshield.net/...-beyond-hot-dwarves/

Yes, there are a lot of things in common. The fiddle, which I already mentioned, the weaponry (though I have no doubt he is FAR more skilled than I am!), the fact that we're both young (in fact, he's only about 29 according to a fantastic online analysis about dwarf aging based on Tolkien's clues, and I am 27 with my husband Kili-lookalike 29 as well), I love to play pranks and so does he, I can sing and so does he, I can be impulsive as well, I am loyal to my friends, I do crave validation from those in authority (Kili craves Thorin's approval), I sometimes speak without thinking, I am fairly open-minded, I am protective of those I care about, I am quite stubborn, while I can appreciate pretty gems I am not obsessive about them, I am not racist, etc. So yes there is a lot in common Smile

So are you respecting Kili more because of the character traits that I pointed out, or because you respect me as a fellow ringer? Wink

I dearly hope so as well, just like I hope that Fili as Thorin's heir will get his moment to shine as well.

Race is meaningless. We all bleed red-no matter who or what we are. What matters is the heart. For each race has those with good hearts and those with bad hearts. You have a good heart. You do not deserve to die.


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Dec 10 2013, 2:44am

Post #38 of 40 (30 views)
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Dang it! [In reply to] Can't Post

There's a love triangle between her, Kili and Legolas? Ugh! Mad They even said Legolas would not be involved with a romance. I feel like they lied. And I hate lying. Mad


Quote
So are you respecting Kili more because of the character traits that I pointed out, or because you respect me as a fellow ringer?


Both. Cool


Cirashala
Grey Havens


Dec 10 2013, 4:19am

Post #39 of 40 (27 views)
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no kidding [In reply to] Can't Post

And EV (in case you missed that part above) was lied to as well- she was told there wouldn't be a love triangle and guess what she faced coming back for pickups????

I feel really bad for her- she only took the job because she loved Tolkien and, though her character was a made up one, felt that Tauriel wasn't too big a divergence from canon and very Tolkienesque.

But at the revelation of the love triangle....she said at that point the principal photography was done and the movie was shot and there was no getting out of it (and the part before these parentheses were as close as I can get remembered exactly what she said) so it sounds like it ticked her off as well, and had that come up before she took the job she likely would have refused it, especially since that was a condition she made (the ONLY condition) before taking it.

My respect for EL went a LOT higher after that comment! The purist in her got upset too Unsure

Lol thank you for the respect for my favorite character and also for me Wink That's one of the reasons I love TORn- the ability to agree or disagree honestly and still remain civil and become friends with people despite differences (and have absolutely fantastic discussions without them turning into arguments if there is something disagreed about! Sly) The respect as a ringer is reciprocated Smile

Race is meaningless. We all bleed red-no matter who or what we are. What matters is the heart. For each race has those with good hearts and those with bad hearts. You have a good heart. You do not deserve to die.


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Dec 11 2013, 2:15am

Post #40 of 40 (19 views)
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Your welcome [In reply to] Can't Post

And now I feel sorry for EL too. I also respect her more now, because she made a condition that she didn't want to be involved in a love triangle. She sure did get lied too. Like the rest of us. The purist in her got upset too, I can relate, so I don't despise the actress anymore. (The character, but not EL).

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