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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Northern Mine Barrage :
So the Battle of Five Armies will not be in The Desolation of Smaug

Kangi Ska
First Mate


Dec 4 2013, 6:35pm

Post #1 of 18 (1423 views)
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So the Battle of Five Armies will not be in The Desolation of Smaug Can't Post

This pleases me to no end. The only question I have is whether the Wurm will meet his end at the close of "Desolation of Smaug" or at the Beginning of "There and Back Again". KS

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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nobofthepony
Able Seaman


Dec 4 2013, 6:40pm

Post #2 of 18 (771 views)
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was this a serious consideration? [In reply to] Can't Post

Smaug dying in film 2 would be like dropping the ring into Mt. Doom in the Two Towers..


TheBeerBaron
Cabin Boy


Dec 4 2013, 6:41pm

Post #3 of 18 (689 views)
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I think the answer is available [In reply to] Can't Post

And known by quite a few people here.

I won't spoil it for you, but I'm sure you can find out how DOS ends if you're interested.

I'm spoiled and kind of wish I wasn't. Gotta just hold on for a few days until the 10th.


Macsen
Able Seaman


Dec 4 2013, 7:09pm

Post #4 of 18 (586 views)
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However... [In reply to] Can't Post

There were a few people around arguing that Smaug would die at the end of the second film. See this thread for example.


tarasaurus
Rigger


Dec 4 2013, 7:15pm

Post #5 of 18 (575 views)
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If BO5A Armies happened [In reply to] Can't Post

in DoS, there would be almost nothing left for TABA, at least 1/3 or half the movie would be missing.


buckledcranium
Swabbie


Dec 4 2013, 8:53pm

Post #6 of 18 (424 views)
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How would that even work? [In reply to] Can't Post

Smaug's death is not comparable to the Ring's destruction; it's totally different.

The death of the dragon creates a vacuum drawing everyone toward Erebor. This creates the scenario which leads up to the Battle of 5 Armies; You've got Bilbo, 13 dwarves (and reinforcements on route) Legolas and the elves, Bard and the men, Azog and the orcs, the goblins, wargs, bats, eagles, and a giant bear all converging at the Lonely Mountain for a massive show-down....

After they turned 2 films into 3 - there was absolutely no way this was going to be in film II - How would that even of worked; what's left after the Battle of Five armies?

Shifting Smaug's death and his attack on Lake-town into film III gives it an action packed opening; and a middle that builds in foreboding and tension while the Dwarves reinforce their defences while Thorin descends into darkness - This comparable to the build up to Helmsdeep in Two Towers.

I was hoping Smaug's death would be in film II; but I can see why they made this choice. This is totally different to destroying the Ring; as the Ring was linked to the primary villain's power, thereby it's destruction became the ultimate goal of the Rings films.


(This post was edited by buckledcranium on Dec 4 2013, 8:54pm)


Otaku-sempai
First Mate


Dec 4 2013, 9:05pm

Post #7 of 18 (406 views)
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Did you seriously think that it might be in 'DoS'? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think that there was ever any doubt that the Battle of Five Armies would be in There and Back Again, once the three-film announcement was made. It is only the climax of the entire story.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Fili
Able Seaman


Dec 4 2013, 9:45pm

Post #8 of 18 (357 views)
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No doubt in my mind... [In reply to] Can't Post

TABA had to have the Battle of Five Armies. There was no way PJ would just squeeze that into the end of one movie, when he could feed our eyes with scenes of glorious battle, ROTK-style.

In fact, that might be a reason I look forward to DOS the most. As many have pointed out, AUJ had a very similar road movie-feel as FOTR, and because there's not much doubt that TABA will have similarities to ROTK with its battles and journey back home, it makes DOS the real wildcard in my opinion. How similar will it be to TTT? That's one of my big questions.

“So comes snow after fire, and even dragons have their endings.”


nobofthepony
Able Seaman


Dec 4 2013, 10:09pm

Post #9 of 18 (300 views)
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it's not totally different... [In reply to] Can't Post

As far as the film narrative goes, defeating Smaug is built up as the main object of the quest. The BO5A is an unintended consequence of Smaug's demise, but no one is going to go see a movie about the unintended consequence of the accomplishment of the main objective. It works alright in the format of the book, but it was never really an option in the context of a film trilogy in which merchandising and box office sales plays the major role. WB would never allow it and I doubt PJ ever saw it as a possibility anyway.


Kangi Ska
First Mate


Dec 4 2013, 11:30pm

Post #10 of 18 (259 views)
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They dropped the ring into Mt. Doom in the Two Towers? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Snowghost77
Able Seaman


Dec 5 2013, 12:22am

Post #11 of 18 (223 views)
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Hahaha!...nice! its just too easy. [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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Grant
Swabbie

Dec 5 2013, 5:43am

Post #12 of 18 (149 views)
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Smaug's Death [In reply to] Can't Post

Smaug's attack on Laketown is the catalyst for the Battle of the Five Armies. So it makes sense it's at the first half of TABA.


lurtz2010
Rigger

Dec 5 2013, 8:02am

Post #13 of 18 (123 views)
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take your meds Kangi Ska [In reply to] Can't Post

saying you're pleased that the battle of five armies isn't in DOS is like saying you were pleased the battle of pellenor fields wasn't in TTT.

I'm trying to avoid all spoilers now but I do know that there's some kind of dwarf battle at the end of film2 and Smaug dies in film3


BalrogTrainer
Cabin Boy

Dec 5 2013, 11:19am

Post #14 of 18 (86 views)
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I'm sure... [In reply to] Can't Post

... a lot of it stems from this mentality that Smaug is THE protagonist in the story, and, therefore, once he's dead, what else is there to tell? After all, the few stage adaptations I've seen of The Hobbit - as well as the old record and read-along book based on the '77 Rankin/Bass version I had in my youth - all omit the BO5A completely.


TheFlayedMan
Cabin Boy


Dec 5 2013, 12:14pm

Post #15 of 18 (79 views)
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Smaug [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't you mean he's the antagonist? Tongue

Even the smallest person can change the course of the future.


BalrogTrainer
Cabin Boy

Dec 5 2013, 12:18pm

Post #16 of 18 (78 views)
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Yes, my bad. I sometimes mix up the two. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Don't you mean he's the antagonist? Tongue



Cillendor
Able Seaman

Dec 5 2013, 8:42pm

Post #17 of 18 (40 views)
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How do you know they made that choice? [In reply to] Can't Post

Have you seen it yet? I'll be really pissed if they save this huge climax for the opening scene of the third movie. Sure, it'll get off to a bang, but it'll be drowned out by all of the other things going on in the film. Smaug's death deserves to be the finale, not the opener.

To keep the action-packed opening that you mention, perhaps they could show Smaug's actual demise in DOS but then open with it from another perspective in TABA, similar to how TTT opened with Gandalf fighting Durin's Bane.


buckledcranium
Swabbie


Dec 5 2013, 9:18pm

Post #18 of 18 (37 views)
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Sorry to let you down [In reply to] Can't Post

But from all reports I've heard Desolation of Smaug ends with a new made up confrontation between the Dwarves and the Dragon in the halls and around the mountain; ending with the him turning and heading toward lake town; with something to the effect of " What have we done?" being said by Bilbo....

I really wanted to see Laketown's attack in film II...
My favourite line in the book is said by Bard as Smaug approaches fast and low over the lake.

"The dragon is coming or I am a fool."

 
 

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