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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
The Grey Havens

ElendilTheShort
Gondor


Nov 29 2013, 9:14am

Post #1 of 16 (568 views)
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The Grey Havens Can't Post

I just finished watching ROTK and although there is much about the movies that people like me would like to be closer to the books, I think The Grey Havens scene is so good that even Christopher Tolkien may like it. The whole scene is as near to perfect as I can imagine. Easily the most emotional part of the whole trilogy for me and possibly for any movie ever. It makes me want to get on that white ship.

The only thing I would add is Frodo's sight of Valinor, but saying that , without that aspect the scene does not suffer.

Follow this up with Sam's homecoming and Into the West and it is just all types of awesome.


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Nov 29 2013, 4:17pm

Post #2 of 16 (358 views)
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agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

The first time I watched ROTK the ending with Frodo saying goodbye and getting on the ship to Valinor already had me in tears. Then Sam returns home with Frodo's voiceover saying "My dear Sam. You cannot always be torn in two. You will have to be one and whole for many years. You have so much to enjoy and to be and to do. Your part in the story will go on." Then Sam picks up his daughter and says "Well, I'm back." and the music starts playing... That was it for me. I was a blubbering mess.Frown It had been quite some time since a movie made me that emotional and I still get teary when I watch it. I hope Christopher Tolkien would at least appreciate that. (The beautiful emotionality of the scene, not my crying)


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Nov 30 2013, 8:33pm

Post #3 of 16 (310 views)
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It would have been prefect if... [In reply to] Can't Post

...if Peter Jackson had remembered that Sam and his family by that time were supposed to be living with Frodo at Bag End.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Magpie
Immortal


Nov 30 2013, 8:48pm

Post #4 of 16 (282 views)
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do you think he forgot? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


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Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Nov 30 2013, 8:49pm

Post #5 of 16 (285 views)
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I'm not sure that he ever realized that in the first place. [In reply to] Can't Post

 Please, forgive my misspelling of perfect.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Nov 30 2013, 8:51pm)


Werde Spinner
Rohan


Nov 30 2013, 9:07pm

Post #6 of 16 (271 views)
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Maybe it was a back door to Bag End? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"I had forgotten that. It is hard to be sure of anything among so many marvels. The world is all grown strange. Elf and Dwarf in company walk in our daily fields; and folk speak with the Lady of the Wood and yet live; and the Sword comes back to war that was broken in the long ages ere the fathers of our fathers rode into the Mark! How shall a man judge what to do in such times?"

"As he ever has judged. Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house."


Magpie
Immortal


Nov 30 2013, 9:17pm

Post #7 of 16 (268 views)
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lol... didn't catch the misspelled word. :-) [In reply to] Can't Post

I think he knew every aspect of the book. There's been so many comments that indicate they studied everything in regards to making the movie. Sam's living arrangements aren't buried or unclear. How could he *not* know?

I think he made a decision that it was perhaps too confusing to the casual viewer why Sam and his family would be living with Frodo.

I will admit, it kind of bugs me that it seems so easy to ascribe carelessness, cluelessness, or apathy to people's actions when that person doesn't do what we think they should have done (or to a standard by which we'd like to hold them). I've run across a couple of such throw off comments like this in the last few days.

I may or may not agree with decisions made in cases like this but I think the people making those decisions are professionals who consider many aspects and options and who care about the product. I think we can critique the movie (the soundtrack, the costumes, yadda yadda) in terms of artistic decisions that were made by people with professional integrity.


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Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Nov 30 2013, 9:27pm

Post #8 of 16 (263 views)
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Oh, you're probably right [In reply to] Can't Post

I just did not see any need to ommit that detail--which could easily have been explained in dialog or narration.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Barrow-Wight
Rohan


Dec 1 2013, 5:22am

Post #9 of 16 (246 views)
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in the EE Commentary [In reply to] Can't Post

In the commentary for FOTR Phillipa called him out twice for neglecting little details. once after Gandalf falls off the bridge she says " I don't know why you didn't have the rest of the bridge collapse like it does in the book" or something similar. Then again at Amon Hen I think PJ says Aragorn tells Frodo goodbye at that point in the book but Phillipa tells him that Aragorn never says goodbye to him at Amon Hen in the book. I could be wrong on that one though

also never ask Phillipa why they don't use the Eagles to fly to Mt Doom lol



Barrow-Wight
Rohan


Dec 1 2013, 5:27am

Post #10 of 16 (261 views)
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100% agree [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes that scene is perfect just like the rest of the ending very satisfying end to the trilogy. I don't know if you noticed but another person pointed out on here that when Frodo turns around to look at his friends for the last time you know that big close up. Well if you look real closely he actually looks at the camera and nods as if he's saying goodbye to us too! it blew my mind the first time I saw it like that it gave me chills lol


dijomaja
Lorien

Dec 4 2013, 12:10pm

Post #11 of 16 (174 views)
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agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

I never understood the idea that LOTR had some fairy-tale happy ending where, in the words of a noted British author, "...everyone goes back to the Shire and drinks ale". These people must not have watched the whole movie, much less read the book.


Eruonen
Tol Eressea


Dec 5 2013, 4:38pm

Post #12 of 16 (165 views)
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The only thing I don't like is the feeling that [In reply to] Can't Post

the Grey Havens was near empty and the implication that this was the "last ship" to sail into the West. I understand for a movie scene they wanted to capture that feeling. But the "real" history goes on into the 4th Age. Also, the ship does not reveal interior cabins yet everyone disappears from view upon boarding....odd. Who actually sails the ship? Cirdan needed to be there as well.


(This post was edited by Eruonen on Dec 5 2013, 4:39pm)


Loresilme
Valinor


Dec 5 2013, 7:55pm

Post #13 of 16 (156 views)
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Cirdan was there :) [In reply to] Can't Post

He can be seen here:

http://www.framecaplib.com/...es/rotk/rotk2476.htm

He's standing in the back, standing behind Elrond, Celeborn and Galadriel.

Regarding cabins, I believe they went below deck. Here is the ship from a different view and from this perspective it shows its size and that there could be quarters fit below the deck:

http://www.framecaplib.com/lotrlib/html/episodes/images/rotk/rotk2487.htm



(This post was edited by Loresilme on Dec 5 2013, 7:57pm)


Eruonen
Tol Eressea


Dec 5 2013, 8:46pm

Post #14 of 16 (150 views)
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A flash appearance in the EE? [In reply to] Can't Post

Cirdan should have a long grey beard if memory serves me and the swan ship would have looked great in white....but minor points.

"Very tall he was, and his beard was long, and he was grey and old,.."


ElendilTheShort
Gondor


Dec 6 2013, 11:14am

Post #15 of 16 (134 views)
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That did seem odd [In reply to] Can't Post

and is at odds with the book perhaps, but there may have been some elves there, just not in the scene due to it being sparsely populated. In some scenes Imladris felt abandoned also, apart from Elrond and Arwen. Right or wrong it conveyed a greater sense of loneliness and a sense that all the elves had indeed departed.


Elciryamo
Rivendell

Dec 13 2013, 8:41am

Post #16 of 16 (115 views)
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Also, even Tolkien went back and forth wtih Cirdan [In reply to] Can't Post

The beard was subject of discussion and addition by Tolkien as he worked the story. It was described as the "fourth stage" so it would have worked well theamatically, having an Elf in the fourth stage preparing to leave as the Fourth Age began.

Regardless, the Grey Havens is still one of the more hearth wrenching scenes as Frodo says good bye. While the Havens seem empty, there were more and more Elves leaving as Sauron increased, so the last stragglers would probably lingered longer as the threat was removed.

 
 

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