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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The first and last dialogue lines of DOS (SPOILER)
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burgahobbit
Rohan


Nov 26 2013, 2:58am

Post #26 of 40 (454 views)
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A Prediction (a very far fetched one) [In reply to] Can't Post

The dwarves hear Smaug shout to them "pathetic dwarves, pathetic lake-hobbit, I'll save you for last!" or words to that affect. He flies off towards laketown and Bofur says, "What have we done? What have we DONE?!"

Flash to Laketown quiet and still. Bard sees fire and nocks an arrow on his string. People look at him like he's crazy, but he just stares at the mountain grimly. Smaug flies down a half second later and begins to wreak havoc on the people. There is lots of screaming, but still, no dialogue. Up on the housetops Bard will pause, down comes good old Thrush with claws. The bird sits down on his bow and tweets. He jumps off the roof and lands on his feet. (sorry that was really bad). Bard looks intently at the bird and then looks back to the sky. He fires the black arrow without a word, and the dragon's eye is shown as the mortal wound is recieved (ala Sierra's The Hobbit Video game). Bard sighs as the dragon falls onto the shore and lies dead there. He looks around him. Laketown is burning. The camera pans out as he stares at the flames and the panicking people and then suddenly he looks up to the Mountain in anger and reaches for another arrow for dramatic effect. The screen fades to black and the music stops..."Oh, misty eye of the mountain below, please keep a watch over my brothers' souls."

P.S. I don't really think this will happen, but I don't think that the movie will end with "what have we done?" either. "I do believe the worst is behind us." is in the second to last scene, and I can't see either of those lines being a good closer. Perhaps another option is flashing to Gandalf who is also in trouble, e.g. everything is going wrong! Will the lakemen survive Smaug...Will Thorin overcome his father's weaknesses? Has Gandalf finally met a foe greater than himself? Join us next time for the exciting conclusion of, The Hobbit!

(This post was edited by burgahobbit on Nov 26 2013, 3:07am)


marillaraina
Rohan


Nov 26 2013, 3:01am

Post #27 of 40 (425 views)
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A little tangental to this... [In reply to] Can't Post

But I was thinking about something Richard said last year during the PR interviews, about how there was a small bit of the storyline about how Thorin was actually reluctant to bring Kili and Fili along, because of the danger and that it while it didn't make it into the first film, it could still have a part in the second film.

I'd imagine that Thorin actually in a way would look at Kili's injury as a great excuse to NOT take them to the dragon's lair so to speak. To make them stay behind. It may be completely practical, but it could also be something that while concerned about Kili's injury, he may not be sorry about leaving them behind.

However if the dragon heads straight to Lake Town, which is where he left them...I'm just saying there may be another level to his fears and worries at that point.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Nov 26 2013, 3:01am

Post #28 of 40 (384 views)
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He'd be a todler of about three to 5 years of age. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
And if Barliman Butterbur doesn't make an appearance, I will be very disappointed.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Mooseboy018
Grey Havens


Nov 26 2013, 3:41am

Post #29 of 40 (354 views)
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I forgot to add my winky face. [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink


Arannir
Valinor


Nov 26 2013, 8:46am

Post #30 of 40 (292 views)
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Hm [In reply to] Can't Post

To your first paragraph: An emotional ending can work, fo course. However, I think we are two movies in now and might need more than that.

To the last: This is not comparable at all imho. If they chose to make it a sad ending, with people in Laketown roaming the ruins and the dwarves (some of them) shocked at what they seem to have done, noone cheering for the dragon's death - yes, of course then they can make it a working sad ending.

TTT was all about having achieved an important victory in the war... DoS might be all about getting the story to a very dark moment in which the dragon's death does not mean that much anymore (and what would it have meant, had the Free Peoples among themselves).


ďAll good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


Arannir
Valinor


Nov 26 2013, 9:29am

Post #31 of 40 (335 views)
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My take on the last 20 - 30 minutes of DoS [In reply to] Can't Post

DOL GULDUR

Gandalf and Radagast escape Dol Guldur. Gandalf urges Radagast to bring him to their allies as quickly as possible. They have to move against Sauron as quickly as possible.

CUT TO EREBOR INTERIOR

The chase between Smaug and the dwarves is in full swing. Smaug is superior by far, of course, but he has trouble finding the dwarves - his enormity hinders him to move as freely as his enemies can.

The dwarves try to meet him with their swords and axes at every possible moment, but fail. It could be that Smaug might, however, lose the deciding part of his "armor" at this point.

The chase eventually reaches the grand entrance hall of Erebor. At some point Smaug crushes into the rubble that seals the gate and it collapses.

In rage, Smaug leaves the mountain.


CUT TO LAKETOWN

Bard and the remaining dwarves and other citizens start hearing noise from Erebor. They look in terror to the mountain as Bard whispers: "I see fire." We see the mountainside catching fire and a dark figure flying around it.


CUT TO EREBOR - OUTSIDE

We see Smaug burning the moutainside, when he stops and catches the sight of small lights in the distance on the lake - Esgaroth. In his rage he flies towards the city.


VERSION I - SMAUG DIES IN TABA

CUT TO EREBOR - INSIDE

While some of the dwarves think that they have chased away the dragon, Balin and Bilbo step out on the balconies facing Dale and the land beyond. They can see Smaug rushing towards the lake.

Balin says full of doom and gloom: "What have we done."

CUT TO CREDITS


VERSION II - Smaug dies in DoS

CUT TO EREBOR INSIDE

Some of the dwarves are full of joy, thinking they chased the dragon away. Especially Balin and Bilbo are more careful, wondering what reason Smaug might have to leave them alone.

(IF THE THRUSH PLAYS A ROLE: This is also the latest point in which the thrush could come in. Either Bard really can understand her, or Bilbo will have witnessed were Smaug is already wounded or at least his armor weakened. As Balin and Bilbo realize that Smaug is heading towards Laketown, Bilbo sees the thrush. With the writing material of Ori he rushes to write a message for the people at Laketown to look out for that little weak spot and sends the thrush off to the city.)

CUT TO LAKETOWN

The villagers realize that Smaug is on his way. Panic spreads, it is total chaos. Soon the waves get higher, the winds stronger. Smaug reaches the city and sets it aflame. People jump into the water, try to save what they have. Some, among them Bard and potentially Kili try to shoot the beast.

After a probably rather long action sequence, the thrush reaches Bard (or he spots Smaug's weakness). At this point the city and many of its inhabitants are pretty far gone already. In a dramatic sequence Bard finally hits the deciding spot. However, it does not go as well as he had hoped. The beast crashes into the city. A huge amount of fire, dirt, smoke and water gets thrown around - amost like a giant explosion.


CUT TO EREBOR

The dwarves, at least Balin and Bilbo, see the explosion, without being close enough to realize the drgon is dead.


CUT TO LAKETOWN

Bard hangs on to some flotsome in the water, climbing on to the ruins of the town. In shock he sees bruning people, the city destroyed, the dragon on the ground. He starts screaming for his children whom he cannot find.


CUT TO EREBOR

After the flash and the smoke has cleared up a bit Balin and Bilbo, still on the balcony, see a giant fire at the horizon. They now realize what must have happened to the city they left behind.

The other dwarves step onto the balcony. Balin turns around, especially facing Thorin. "What have we done."

CUT TO CREDITS


ďAll good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


TheBeerBaron
Rivendell


Nov 26 2013, 10:34am

Post #32 of 40 (246 views)
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Here I am! [In reply to] Can't Post

:)


TheBeerBaron
Rivendell


Nov 26 2013, 10:40am

Post #33 of 40 (260 views)
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As Bofur is the "everyman" sort of Dwarf [In reply to] Can't Post

and as such kind of represents the viewers POV then I can see JImmy Nesbitt delivering the final line, after the dragon has been taken down, with the town in ruins.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Nov 26 2013, 1:52pm

Post #34 of 40 (209 views)
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I think I was the first person to suggest this prologue [In reply to] Can't Post

So I'll be really excited if it turns out to be true! It was either me or Shagrat who first mentioned the concept on these boards at least. Smile

http://newboards.theonering.net/...orum.cgi?post=633723


Kendalf
Rohan


Nov 26 2013, 5:44pm

Post #35 of 40 (183 views)
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Hmm... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
VERSION I - SMAUG DIES IN TABA

CUT TO EREBOR - INSIDE

While some of the dwarves think that they have chased away the dragon, Balin and Bilbo step out on the balconies facing Dale and the land beyond. They can see Smaug rushing towards the lake.
Balin says full of doom and gloom: "What have we done."

CUT TO CREDITS

VERSION II - Smaug dies in DoS

CUT TO LAKETOWN

The villagers realize that Smaug is on his way. Panic spreads, it is total chaos. Soon the waves get higher, the winds stronger. Smaug reaches the city and sets it aflame. People jump into the water, try to save what they have. Some, among them Bard and potentially Kili try to shoot the beast.
After a probably rather long action sequence, the thrush reaches Bard (or he spots Smaug's weakness). At this point the city and many of its inhabitants are pretty far gone already. In a dramatic sequence Bard finally hits the deciding spot. However, it does not go as well as he had hoped. The beast crashes into the city. A huge amount of fire, dirt, smoke and water gets thrown around - amost like a giant explosion.

CUT TO LAKETOWN

Bard hangs on to some flotsome in the water, climbing on to the ruins of the town. In shock he sees bruning people, the city destroyed, the dragon on the ground. He starts screaming for his children whom he cannot find.

CUT TO EREBOR

After the flash and the smoke has cleared up a bit Balin and Bilbo, still on the balcony, see a giant fire at the horizon. They now realize what must have happened to the city they left behind.

The other dwarves step onto the balcony. Balin turns around, especially facing Thorin. "What have we done."

CUT TO CREDITS



I think the danger with your Version I is that it would be utterly infuriating Crazy I suspect the majority of the audience (myself included) would feel completely robbed of any meaningful and substantial climax. It's essentially incomplete, isn't it? The backlash against such an ending (and, by association, the decision to trilogise the tale) could be quite overwhelming.

But I think the danger with your Version II is that it removes from the tale (probably only 20 minutes after introducing him) one of the most anticipated fantasy characters / CGI powerhouses in cinematic history Unsure Smaug is WB's and Jackson's big attraction; to dispose of him so soon may prove counter-productive when it comes to TaBA's ticket sales.

I suspect a Version III may be more likely; that Smaug attacks Laketown, destroys the city in flames, and that (perhaps) a few of our Company (possibly) perish and that he flies off. That way, we have the face-meltingly spectacular and heart-breakingly emotional climax the film deserves, but also have a reason to come back again in December 2014 to see the townsfolk's revenge...

But, then, like all of us here...what do I know? Laugh

"I have found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."


Arannir
Valinor


Nov 26 2013, 6:02pm

Post #36 of 40 (156 views)
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I agree with all flaws you mention regarding I and II [In reply to] Can't Post

You are right though... Smaug could attack Laketown twice, only perishing in the second one, set at the beginning of TABA.

This might solve quite some issues coming from the trilogy decision (though a lot good has come from that)... Except the danger that TABA might be overloaded.


ďAll good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


Kendalf
Rohan


Nov 26 2013, 6:06pm

Post #37 of 40 (151 views)
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You're right [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
This might solve quite some issues coming from the trilogy decision (though a lot good has come from that)... Except the danger that TABA might be overloaded.



Yep, it's a very, very complex problem Crazy

"I have found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."


burgahobbit
Rohan


Nov 26 2013, 8:43pm

Post #38 of 40 (126 views)
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Two more possibilites [In reply to] Can't Post

Those are all really interesting theories, guys. The two part battle of Lake-town is interesting, and Arannir's ideas seem very plausible. But I just can't see them saying "What have we done..." and then instantly cutting to credits working at all. Like Kendalf said, it would feel terribly incomplete if Smaug rushed off and Balin says "what have we done", and that's it. I also think that if Smaug dies and the final seconds of the film are used saying "What have we done", that people will think, "Okay that was weird," and then talking about it later with friends, "Oh the movie was great, but the last line was really odd. After they kill the dragon the dwarves say, 'what have we done?' and that's it." There also must be some foreshadowing of what's to come in TABA if Smaug does die.


So I now present...


VERSION IV


This is pretty much word for word with your Version II, except that after the dwarves see the burning of the city and Bofur (Tongue), or Balin says, "What have we done?", the camera sweeps back to Laketown and it is now a dark early morning with some grey light on the horizon. Bard comes swimming out of the water and onto the North eastern shore (the shore closest to Erebor) of Long Lake. Other crying lake people soon come behind him. Bard stands motionless with his eyes fixed on the mountain as the fire still rages behind him. He fits an arrow to his string and takes a step towards the Lonely Mountain, signifying that he wishes to kill the dwarves. Cut to credits.


This would be roughly the same ending scheme as AUJ's. "I do believe the worst is behind us," also doesn't cut to credits but scans over the map until reaching the dwarves' major conflict of film 2, who is angered at the disturbance of the thrush. With the above Version IV, the line "What have we done," serves as the ending for the Company's screentime, but there is also a silent scanning of the Desolation of Smaug before Bard is seen, who is angered by what the dwarves unwittingly sent to destroy his home, and who will be one of the major conflicting characters for the dwarves in film 3.


VERSION V


As Kendalf suggests, Smaug might be left alive just for TABA's success. In this case, the dwarves see Smaug fly off in a rage blowing fire at all of the trees below him and one of them says, "What have we done?" Cut to the eastern edge of Mirkwood. The Necromancer is seen in a barely visible spirit form next to hundreds of orcs and wargs swarming among the tree. He points past the lake and up towards Erebor before disappearing, and then there is a close-up of Azog as he smiles. Again, another silent scene foreshadowing film 3 and one of its main conflicts of the dwarves.

"I've found it is the small things, everyday deeds of ordinary folk, that keeps the darkness at bay. Simple acts of kindness and love. Why Bilbo Baggins? Perhaps it is because Iím afraid, and he gives me courage.Ē - Gandalf the Grey.

"Do not be afraid Mithrandir, if ever you should need my help, I will come." - Lady Galadriel.


The Mitch King
Rohan


Nov 26 2013, 10:46pm

Post #39 of 40 (95 views)
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Necromancer [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
VERSION V


As Kendalf suggests, Smaug might be left alive just for TABA's success. In this case, the dwarves see Smaug fly off in a rage blowing fire at all of the trees below him and one of them says, "What have we done?" Cut to the eastern edge of Mirkwood. The Necromancer is seen in a barely visible spirit form next to hundreds of orcs and wargs swarming among the tree. He points past the lake and up towards Erebor before disappearing, and then there is a close-up of Azog as he smiles. Again, another silent scene foreshadowing film 3 and one of its main conflicts of the dwarves.


I was wondering when someone would include the Necromancer in the ending. DG obviously won't end as abruptly as Gandalf and Raddy escaping.


Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Nov 27 2013, 9:04pm

Post #40 of 40 (72 views)
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indeed, I think we all forget somewhat about.. [In reply to] Can't Post

...the Dol Guldur side-plot... when will that end?
Absolutely wonderful theorising going on here though :D

big big *mods up*
Cool

"So your own praise will forever keep your name green,
Both here on Earth and on the stage of the stars" - J.G.Kittel, writing about the composer Jan Dismas Zelenka (1740)
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