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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Chapter of the Week: The Battle of Moria

Queen of Erebor
Lorien


Nov 8 2013, 11:36pm

Post #1 of 12 (538 views)
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Chapter of the Week: The Battle of Moria Can't Post

Yay! I finally get to do one of these things without anyone taking it away this time! With all the news of the upcoming DoS, I don't think anyone would have anyways. Since there's quite a lot of stuff going on in this particular chapter, I may have to split this in two. Just thought I would warn you ahead of time.Wink

Note to the Mods: Due to the Live Event and the new trailer for the upcoming DoS, I didn't get around to saving any screenshots, so feel free to add some if you wish.

The chapter begins with Bilbo being awakened by Bombur's snoring.

1. Bilbo looks quite annoyed to be awoken by Bombur's snoring. What do you think he's thinking at this particular moment in the journey?

The next scene, we see Bilbo get up and stretch and go over to one of the ponies. According to the Hobbit, the pony's name is Myrtle. He then feeds her an apple and asks her not to tell anyone.

2. Why do you think Bilbo doesn't want anyone to know that he fed Myrtle an apple? Do you think he feels guilty about feeding one of the ponies without being asked to do so?

It's at this time that we hear one of the Orcs that infest the Lone Lands screech and Bilbo ask "What was that?" only to be told by Fili and Kili that the sound the Hobbit hears is the Orc pack that will later pursue the company.

3. Do you think that Fili and Kili were trying to scare Bilbo with what Orcs may or may not do, or were they simply trying to inform him what they were and what they were capable of.

In the next scene, we see Thorin telling Kili that "night raid by Orcs are no joke and that he knows nothing of the world."

4. Do you think Thorin was annoyed by what Fili and Kili told Bilbo about Orcs, or was he simply trying to put Kili in his place, so to speak?

We then hear Balin step in and tell Bilbo and anyone else who may be listening to "not mind Thorin, since he has more reason than most to hate Orcs and then goes on to tell us about the Battle of Azanulbizar.

5. What do you think of Balin telling the story of the flashback scene back to the Battle of Azanulbizar? Do you think he's a good a storyteller as his cousin Gimli is in the LotR?

Balin tells us that "Moria had been taken by legions of Orcs, led by the most vile of their race, Azog the Defiler.

6. What did you first think of Azog? Did you like this change from the book to be left alive during the time of the Hobbit, or would you have preferred them to stick with canon in this particular time in the story?

Azog's first dastardly deed is the beheading of Thorin's grandfather, Thror, which certainly gets a rise out of him.

7. What was your first reaction to this particular scene, and why do you think that Azog wants to wipe out the line of Durin?

It's at this particular time that we learn how Thorin earned his nickname.

8. Do you like this deviation from the book, where the "oakenshield" branch is lying on the ground rather than being broken off by Thorin, or do you wish they would have filmed it as written?

It's shortly after this that Thorin slices off Azog's arm (though I still think he should have sliced off his head, but I guess Dwarves can't reach up that high) and that's we're told by Balin that "Azog learned that day that the line of Durin could not be so easily broken."

9. What do you think Azog was thinking at this moment? Do you think he expected Thorin to best him in the way that he did? And what of Thorin? What do you think he was thinking after that little bit of victory that caused Azog to be dragged back into Moria by some of his brethren?

Shortly after, we learn from Balin that even though they were able to defeat their enemies, there was no feast that day, due to the fact that there were heavy casualties among the Dwarves who came to take back Moria shortly after the dragon took Erebor. We see Dwalin with a mohawk haircut, and Balin's hair is more gray than white.

10. What do you think of Dwalin's mohawk haircut? Were you expecting a dwarf to have that kind of hairstyle?

It seems I'm running a little low on time, so I'll post some more questions tomorrow. Like I stated above, there's a lot of stuff happening in this particular chapter, so I look forward to your responses for the first part.Smile

Far over the Misty Mountains cold
To dungeons deep and caverns old
We must away, ere break of day
To find our long-forgotten gold.





Glorfindela
Valinor


Nov 8 2013, 11:52pm

Post #2 of 12 (292 views)
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Quick response. [In reply to] Can't Post


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1. Bilbo looks quite annoyed to be awoken by Bombur's snoring. What do you think he's thinking at this particular moment in the journey?

He feels tired and wants to sleep.

2. Why do you think Bilbo doesn't want anyone to know that he fed Myrtle an apple? Do you think he feels guilty about feeding one of the ponies without being asked to do so?

Perhaps feels slightly embarrassed at being soft with a horse in front of the Dwarves?

3. Do you think that Fili and Kili were trying to scare Bilbo with what Orcs may or may not do, or were they simply trying to inform him what they were and what they were capable of.

They were just having a joke at his expense.

4. Do you think Thorin was annoyed by what Fili and Kili told Bilbo about Orcs, or was he simply trying to put Kili in his place, so to speak?

He was implying that Orcs are a serious matter and should not be trivialised.

5. What do you think of Balin telling the story of the flashback scene back to the Battle of Azanulbizar? Do you think he's a good a storyteller as his cousin Gimli is in the LotR?

I think Balin is perfect as the storyteller of the flashback scene, and he is a FAR better storyteller (played by a better actor) than Gimli is.

6. What did you first think of Azog? Did you like this change from the book to be left alive during the time of the Hobbit, or would you have preferred them to stick with canon in this particular time in the story?

I don't have a problem with it, since for me the books are one thing, the films quite another. I'm perfectly comfortable with this part of the story and it makes sense within the film storyline. I also think Azog is very well done and more intimidating than any of the stiff-faced LOTR Orcs (who also had much smaller parts to play).

8. Do you like this deviation from the book, where the "oakenshield" branch is lying on the ground rather than being broken off by Thorin, or do you wish they would have filmed it as written?

I think this detail is absolutely fine as it is in the film.

9. What do you think Azog was thinking at this moment? Do you think he expected Thorin to best him in the way that he did? And what of Thorin? What do you think he was thinking after that little bit of victory that caused Azog to be dragged back into Moria by some of his brethren?

Well, no. I don't think Azog did expect it, since Thorin was lying on the ground apparently helpless before he sliced off Azog's arm. Thorin and the Dwarves were in a fairly desperate position before Azog's arm was sliced off, so naturally they would have been rather pleased at this turn of events.

10. What do you think of Dwalin's mohawk haircut? Were you expecting a dwarf to have that kind of hairstyle?

I'm neutral about it Ė think it is fine.

Thanks so much for taking the time to post this.


(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Nov 8 2013, 11:54pm)


vinsanity
The Shire

Nov 9 2013, 1:03am

Post #3 of 12 (248 views)
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.... [In reply to] Can't Post

That's one of my favourite scenes in the movie


1. Bilbo looks quite annoyed to be awoken by Bombur's snoring. What do you think he's thinking at this particular moment in the journey?

Probably thinking: "Well i'm not going to get some sleep, am i?"

2. Why do you think Bilbo doesn't want anyone to know that he fed Myrtle an apple? Do you think he feels guilty about feeding one of the ponies without being asked to do so?

I think he's just playing with Myrtle.

3. Do you think that Fili and Kili were trying to scare Bilbo with what Orcs may or may not do, or were they simply trying to inform him what they were and what they were capable of.

I think they were just scaring him, by they reaction afterwards

4. Do you think Thorin was annoyed by what Fili and Kili told Bilbo about Orcs, or was he simply trying to put Kili in his place, so to speak?

My take was Thorin was trying to put the young guns in their place

5. What do you think of Balin telling the story of the flashback scene back to the Battle of Azanulbizar? Do you think he's a good a storyteller as his cousin Gimli is in the LotR?

I loved it, i though Ken Stott did great voice over.

6. What did you first think of Azog? Did you like this change from the book to be left alive during the time of the Hobbit, or would you have preferred them to stick with canon in this particular time in the story?

I don't mind Azog, i would prefer if Azog was in prosthethic not CGI. About the change, i've heard Philippa Boyens explanation in the audio commentary why they kept Azog alive, but i don't buy it, i don't mind Thorin killing him instead of Dain, but would have been cool if Bolg was there also seeing his father getting killed by Thorin and sworing revenge against him. It would have been a better story arc, i think

7. What was your first reaction to this particular scene, and why do you think that Azog wants to wipe out the line of Durin?

My first reaction was: "Wow, that's very graphic for the Hobbit tone, that it's supposedly less toned down in the violence, but i love some LOTR darkness in it" so i liked it. Why i think Azog wants to wipe out the line of Durin, i don't know, maybe he had some quarrel with them in the past.

8. Do you like this deviation from the book, where the "oakenshield" branch is lying on the ground rather than being broken off by Thorin, or do you wish they would have filmed it as written?

I don't mind the deviation, i thought it was nicely done.

9. What do you think Azog was thinking at this moment? Do you think he expected Thorin to best him in the way that he did? And what of Thorin? What do you think he was thinking after that little bit of victory that caused Azog to be dragged back into Moria by some of his brethren?

Probably he was surprised and shocked what happened, so he cries like a baby. Thorin i think got his hope back and believe he turned the tide of war there and fueled it to his brothers in arms to attack the remaining orcs.

10. What do you think of Dwalin's mohawk haircut? Were you expecting a dwarf to have that kind of hairstyle?

I thought it was cool, really liked it :)



(This post was edited by vinsanity on Nov 9 2013, 1:07am)


Brethil
Half-elven


Nov 9 2013, 4:34am

Post #4 of 12 (225 views)
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On the road again... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The chapter begins with Bilbo being awakened by Bombur's snoring.1. Bilbo looks quite annoyed to be awoken by Bombur's snoring. What do you think he's thinking at this particular moment in the journey? I'm guessing it has to do with missing his feather-beds and his nice quiet Hobbit hole!
The next scene, we see Bilbo get up and stretch and go over to one of the ponies. According to the Hobbit, the pony's name is Myrtle. He then feeds her an apple and asks her not to tell anyone. 2. Why do you think Bilbo doesn't want anyone to know that he fed Myrtle an apple? Do you think he feels guilty about feeding one of the ponies without being asked to do so? Probably more that he does not want to appear sentimental or soft in front of these Dwarves (who clearly think him just that).

It's at this time that we hear one of the Orcs that infest the Lone Lands screech and Bilbo ask "What was that?" only to be told by Fili and Kili that the sound the Hobbit hears is the Orc pack that will later pursue the company. 3. Do you think that Fili and Kili were trying to scare Bilbo with what Orcs may or may not do, or were they simply trying to inform him what they were and what they were capable of. I think from their youthful grins it is more of the sharing of a joke between them; also, because the company looks down a bit on Bilbo (and the boys model after their uncle) they probably feel like they are entitled to a little fun at his expense, and feel a bit superior to this Hobbit who has not faced what their people collectively have dealt with. They have no way to judge Bilbo's worth at this point and just use his appearance, and I'm sure the peace of Hobbiton, to assess him...nothing malicious, just immature high spirits (which Thorin has no time for, and has not for a very long time.)

In the next scene, we see Thorin telling Kili that "night raid by Orcs are no joke and that he knows nothing of the world." 4. Do you think Thorin was annoyed by what Fili and Kili told Bilbo about Orcs, or was he simply trying to put Kili in his place, so to speak? I think the lightness of the mood is what bothers Thorin. Delivering the same information in a serious tone I think would have been fine.

We then hear Balin step in and tell Bilbo and anyone else who may be listening to "not mind Thorin, since he has more reason than most to hate Orcs and then goes on to tell us about the Battle of Azanulbizar. 5. What do you think of Balin telling the story of the flashback scene back to the Battle of Azanulbizar? Do you think he's a good a storyteller as his cousin Gimli is in the LotR?
He is a fantastic storyteller! And he shows such heart and deep emotion too, but understated.

Balin tells us that "Moria had been taken by legions of Orcs, led by the most vile of their race, Azog the Defiler. 6. What did you first think of Azog? Did you like this change from the book to be left alive during the time of the Hobbit, or would you have preferred them to stick with canon in this particular time in the story? I have to say I will withhold judgment on this, because it seems there must be a rationale in the bigger story picture for the change. I don't consider myself a huge purist in terms of adaptation, so the Orc timeline does not bother me as much as it does others. My feeling is that from an adaptation perspective, the addition of Azog as a present threat has to do with pacing an maintaining tension. I don't love the creature, but it does not ruin anything for me.

Azog's first dastardly deed is the beheading of Thorin's grandfather, Thror, which certainly gets a rise out of him. 7. What was your first reaction to this particular scene, and why do you think that Azog wants to wipe out the line of Durin?
I don't think he needs much more of a reason than the long-standing enmity between the species; in which the House of Durin plays a leading role.

It's at this particular time that we learn how Thorin earned his nickname.
8. Do you like this deviation from the book, where the "oakenshield" branch is lying on the ground rather than being broken off by Thorin, or do you wish they would have filmed it as written? As seen it is nicely incorporated as a dynamic addition, and one not requiring dialogue to introduce it. So on that level it works nicely.

It's shortly after this that Thorin slices off Azog's arm (though I still think he should have sliced off his head, but I guess Dwarves can't reach up that high) and that's we're told by Balin that "Azog learned that day that the line of Durin could not be so easily broken." 9. What do you think Azog was thinking at this moment? Do you think he expected Thorin to best him in the way that he did? And what of Thorin? What do you think he was thinking after that little bit of victory that caused Azog to be dragged back into Moria by some of his brethren? Lopping off his head would have been lovely! But yes I think Azog was shocked by taking such a wound from a Dwarf he clearly saw as mere prey. It sets up the species conflict as a personal one.

Shortly after, we learn from Balin that even though they were able to defeat their enemies, there was no feast that day, due to the fact that there were heavy casualties among the Dwarves who came to take back Moria shortly after the dragon took Erebor. We see Dwalin with a mohawk haircut, and Balin's hair is more gray than white. 10. What do you think of Dwalin's mohawk haircut? Were you expecting a dwarf to have that kind of hairstyle? It was unexpected but welcome! It gives Dwalin such a tough air throughout his whole continuum! I actually have to say I love everything about Dwalin.

It seems I'm running a little low on time, so I'll post some more questions tomorrow. Like I stated above, there's a lot of stuff happening in this particular chapter, so I look forward to your responses for the first part.Smile Thanks Queen for posting this with things so busy! Great pleasure!!!!


Is there a Tolkien topic that you have wanted to look into more deeply, and write about your thoughts on it? If so, we'd like to hear from you for the next TORn Amateur Symposium- coming in November. Happy writing!





Riven Delve
Grey Havens


Nov 9 2013, 3:41pm

Post #5 of 12 (171 views)
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What IS making that screeching noise, anyway? [In reply to] Can't Post


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We hear one of the Orcs that infest the Lone Lands screech and Bilbo ask "What was that?" only to be told by Fili and Kili that the sound the Hobbit hears is the Orc pack that will later pursue the company.
3. Do you think that Fili and Kili were trying to scare Bilbo with what Orcs may or may not do, or were they simply trying to inform him what they were and what they were capable of.
I wanted to start out with this question because I always assumed that the screeching noise didn't come from Orcs, because no one reacted to it besides Bilbo, who's never been out of the Shire. I figured it was just some kind of bird of prey or something. (Besides, the real Orcs were being vewwy, vewwy quiet across the valley!) What does everyone else think? Anyway, yes, I think Fili were just yanking Bilbo's chain. I have to admit that I myself have teased people who are obviously gullible. Sometimes the temptation is too much to resist. Angelic

1. Bilbo looks quite annoyed to be awoken by Bombur's snoring. What do you think he's thinking at this particular moment in the journey? 2. Why do you think Bilbo doesn't want anyone to know that he fed Myrtle an apple? Do you think he feels guilty about feeding one of the ponies without being asked to do so?
Poor Bilbo is having a hard time adjusting to this life on the road thing. Smile I think he doesn't want the Dwarves to know just how big a softie toward Myrtle he really is--and as we see a moment later, he has good reason to want to protect himself!



4. Do you think Thorin was annoyed by what Fili and Kili told Bilbo about Orcs, or was he simply trying to put Kili in his place, so to speak?
I think he's annoyed that the rest of the Dwarves aren't taking this quest as seriously as he is, and this is particularly galling in these boys he's tried so hard to train. Poor Kili really feels he's let Thorin down!


5. What do you think of Balin telling the story of the flashback scene back to the Battle of Azanulbizar? Do you think he's a good a storyteller as his cousin Gimli is in the LotR?
I think Balin's story is fantastic! Plus hearing of Balin's respect--when we know he often disagrees with Thorin--adds weight to our own admiration as viewers of what he's done.

6. What did you first think of Azog? Did you like this change from the book to be left alive during the time of the Hobbit, or would you have preferred them to stick with canon in this particular time in the story?
I'm not sure. I'll have to see what happens if/when Bolg and Dain come into the story later to judge.


7. What was your first reaction to this particular scene, and why do you think that Azog wants to wipe out the line of Durin?

I knew what happened in the appendices, so it wasn't a big surprise that Thror was beheaded...but I was surprised that we actually saw the head roll toward us. Yuck!

The Orcs and Dwarves have been at war for a long, long time, so I'm not surprised any Orc would want to wipe out Dwarves. As for wiping out this particular line...maybe something personal happened before this? Maybe it was just because they had taken Moria and wanted to pour salt in the wound by wiping out a line of Dwarven kings? Who knows.



8. Do you like this deviation from the book, where the "oakenshield" branch is lying on the ground rather than being broken off by Thorin, or do you wish they would have filmed it as written?

I don't mind. Considering the location they chose for the East Gate in FOTR, which was pretty rocky, it would have looked pretty odd for Thorin to run back to the trees to grab a branch! (Of course, it looks a little odd just lying there so far from the trees too, but I'm willing to suspend disbelief!)



It's shortly after this that Thorin slices off Azog's arm (though I still think he should have sliced off his head, but I guess Dwarves can't reach up that high) LaughLaugh Nice one!
and that's we're told by Balin that "Azog learned that day that the line of Durin could not be so easily broken."
9. What do you think Azog was thinking at this moment? Do you think he expected Thorin to best him in the way that he did? And what of Thorin? What do you think he was thinking after that little bit of victory that caused Azog to be dragged back into Moria by some of his brethren?


Obviously the battle was going badly for the Dwarves (in the movie universe), and with Thror beheaded and Thrain disappeared...no doubt Azog thought Thorin would be easy meat too. HA! I don't know what Thorin thought--he was probably just aiming to survive by whatever means available. I think this victory over Azog gave him fresh hope, and he probably never even imagined that Azog would survive.


10. What do you think of Dwalin's mohawk haircut? Were you expecting a dwarf to have that kind of hairstyle?


It struck me as a little odd at first, but I think it was a great way to show Dwalin as younger.



It seems I'm running a little low on time, so I'll post some more questions tomorrow. Like I stated above, there's a lot of stuff happening in this particular chapter, so I look forward to your responses for the first part.Smile

Looking forward to it! Thanks! Smile



"Our perennial spiritual and psychological task is to look at things familiar until they become unfamiliar again." --G. K. Chesterton



Kim
Valinor


Nov 9 2013, 10:39pm

Post #6 of 12 (143 views)
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My response and a photo [In reply to] Can't Post

Can't discuss this chapter without this photo! Evil




1. Bilbo looks quite annoyed to be awoken by Bombur's snoring. What do you think he's thinking at this particular moment in the journey?
Well, as someone whoís been awakened by someone elseís snoring, Iíd say that he probably was annoyed by the noise, and most likely missing the peace and quiet of Bag End. And his comfortable bed, as evidenced by the need to stretch to work out the kinks when he got up.

2. Why do you think Bilbo doesn't want anyone to know that he fed Myrtle an apple? Do you think he feels guilty about feeding one of the ponies without being asked to do so?
No, I donít think he felt guilty, it felt just like a nice little moment of bonding.

3. Do you think that Fili and Kili were trying to scare Bilbo with what Orcs may or may not do, or were they simply trying to inform him what they were and what they were capable of.
I think initially, Kiliís just gave a simple answer (which also startled Fili), but then it turned into an opportunity to tease Bilbo.

4. Do you think Thorin was annoyed by what Fili and Kili told Bilbo about Orcs, or was he simply trying to put Kili in his place, so to speak?
Yes, I think he was annoyed, especially since Kili and Fili probably hadnít had any practical experience with Orcs up to this point, so didnít really know what they were talking about.

5. What do you think of Balin telling the story of the flashback scene back to the Battle of Azanulbizar? Do you think he's a good a storyteller as his cousin Gimli is in the LotR?
This was a wonderful way to tell the story; Ken Stott has such a great voice, and since Balin was there at the battle, he was a natural choice to tell the story. Definitely a mesmerizing storyteller.

6. What did you first think of Azog? Did you like this change from the book to be left alive during the time of the Hobbit, or would you have preferred them to stick with canon in this particular time in the story?
I had just re-read the Hobbit the month before the movie came out and knew Azog was supposed to be dead, so I admit this really bugged me. I didnít see the need for this change from the book. I also didnít like his look Ė the CGI really bothered me at first. However, after multiple viewings, Iíve come to accept him and his design in AUJ, and when I saw him in the DOS trailer, I thought his CGI looked a lot better. Also, after watching the EE extras and commentary, I have a greater appreciation for his place in the story (wonít go into spoilery details here).

7. What was your first reaction to this particular scene, and why do you think that Azog wants to wipe out the line of Durin?
well, it was pretty horrible to see, but I didnít really think much about why Azog wants to wipe out the line of Durin beyond just, you know, being an evil orc.


8. Do you like this deviation from the book, where the "oakenshield" branch is lying on the ground rather than being broken off by Thorin, or do you wish they would have filmed it as written?
I liked how they did it in the film, although after several viewings, I did start to wonder ďwhere did that branch come from on this rocky hillside with no trees in sight?Ē LOL. Tongue

9. What do you think Azog was thinking at this moment? Do you think he expected Thorin to best him in the way that he did? And what of Thorin? What do you think he was thinking after that little bit of victory that caused Azog to be dragged back into Moria by some of his brethren?
Well, Iíd say Azog was probably used to mowing down his opponents and was not expecting to be so injured by a dwarf, especially since he had just been taunting Thorin with Throrís head. As for Thorin, he was in such a desperate situation, adrenaline was probably running high and he just slashed at whatever he could. And once he was able to injure the huge orc, he realized he could turn the tide of the battle.

10. What do you think of Dwalin's mohawk haircut? Were you expecting a dwarf to have that kind of hairstyle?
I thought it was great! I actually didnít recognize him at first, but thought it was a great look.

Oakenshield Watch: the origin story! I liked the design of the branch and the effective use shown during the battle against Azog's heavy mace.

Thorin's Hair Watch: well, what can I say? It looked awesome in battle, swaying to and fro during the fighting. An excellent outing for it's first action sequence. Laugh

Thanks for the post and looking forward to more! Smile



Queen of Erebor
Lorien


Nov 9 2013, 10:52pm

Post #7 of 12 (130 views)
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And here are the remaining four questions... [In reply to] Can't Post

since I was nearly finished yesterday, I just ran a little low on time.

Now to continue where I left off...

11. What do you think of Thorin's fighting style? Is there anything that stood out for you?

We now learn from Balin (near the end of the flashback sequence) that "there was one that he can follow. There is one he could call King." He's of course referring to Thorin. The rest of the Dwarves seem to have gained a little more respect for Thorin after hearing this tale.

12. What do you think Thorin is thinking and feeling at this particular moment? Does he seem proud that the rest of the Dwarves seem to regard him with more respect after hearing what's he's been through during the Battle of Azanulbizar?

After Balin finishes with the tale, Bilbo asks what had become of the pale orc, and Thorin tells us the he "slunk back into the cave in whence he came, and that that filth died of his wounds long ago" but a look between Balin and Gandalf seem to tell us otherwise.

13. Do you think Gandalf (and Balin) suspect that Azog isn't really dead, and that they think it foolish of Thorin to think this if he didn't actually see him die (he just saw him being dragged into Moria missing an arm by his brethren)?

14. Is there anything else that you wish to discuss that I may have missed (I'm amazed I remembered as much as I did, but I did just view the Extended Edition of AUJ a couple of days ago, so it's still pretty fresh in my mind)?

Far over the Misty Mountains cold
To dungeons deep and caverns old
We must away, ere break of day
To find our long-forgotten gold.





Kim
Valinor


Nov 9 2013, 11:36pm

Post #8 of 12 (127 views)
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And my remaining answers... [In reply to] Can't Post

11. What do you think of Thorin's fighting style? Is there anything that stood out for you?
Hmmm, I donít have too much to say here, other than I liked how Thorin grabbed the branch to use to his advantage, and then had such an impressive almost back-handed slice of Azogís arm.

12. What do you think Thorin is thinking and feeling at this particular moment? Does he seem proud that the rest of the Dwarves seem to regard him with more respect after hearing what's he's been through during the Battle of Azanulbizar?
Heís pretty deep in thought during Balinís story, re-living the battle and pain of losing his father and grandfather. I wouldnít say he was feeling proud, but more acknowledging and appreciating their respect.

13. Do you think Gandalf (and Balin) suspect that Azog isn't really dead, and that they think it foolish of Thorin to think this if he didn't actually see him die (he just saw him being dragged into Moria missing an arm by his brethren)?
The look between Gandalf and Balin always kind of puzzled me, like ďdo they know something we donít know?Ē Iíve seen some other comments here that most likely they donít know whether or not Azog actually died, but itís probably best not to assume until they know for sure.

14. Is there anything else that you wish to discuss that I may have missed (I'm amazed I remembered as much as I did, but I did just view the Extended Edition of AUJ a couple of days ago, so it's still pretty fresh in my mind)?
Well, I have to point out the obvious and say how much I liked the final shot of the battle sequence (see the photo in my previous post) Ė talk about a hero moment! Wink

Also, I really like the music and look for the battle sequence. I like the flashback sequences that have kind of an other-worldly look and feel to them, and the music really contributed to that too. It also looked really good in 3D.

Couple other random thoughts:
I thought it was interesting that Thorin was sleeping sitting up. Like he couldn't let his guard down for a minute now that they've started their quest.
I also like the way Gandalf was sitting under the tree smoking and just sort of contemplating things.
And the way that Kili was sitting as Balin was telling the story - he looked like such a little kid.
I liked Bombur's moths - that was a fun little touch!

Thanks again!


vinsanity
The Shire

Nov 10 2013, 1:15am

Post #9 of 12 (111 views)
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my answers [In reply to] Can't Post


11. What do you think of Thorin's fighting style? Is there anything that stood out for you?

It's not very flahsy like Legolas, kinda in the same vein as Aragorn, Boromir fighting style.
12. What do you think Thorin is thinking and feeling at this particular moment? Does he seem proud that the rest of the Dwarves seem to regard him with more respect after hearing what's he's been through during the Battle of Azanulbizar?

I think he seems proud by having them at his side, loyal.

13. Do you think Gandalf (and Balin) suspect that Azog isn't really dead, and that they think it foolish of Thorin to think this if he didn't actually see him die (he just saw him being dragged into Moria missing an arm by his brethren)?

That's a weird thing, probably we will see more in the next movies, how Gandalf and Balin know that Azog isn't really dead and, specially Balin, haven't told him that.

14. Is there anything else that you wish to discuss that I may have missed (I'm amazed I remembered as much as I did, but I did just view the Extended Edition of AUJ a couple of days ago, so it's still pretty fresh in my mind)?

I think you got pretty much all covered :)


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Nov 10 2013, 8:19am

Post #10 of 12 (107 views)
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It is well known, if Gandalf finds Thrain in Moria, not Dol Guldur, I very much want a hint of Balrog, the TRUE [In reply to] Can't Post

Lord of Moria sense his slaying of Durin and Nain and the real terror that kept the dwarves out. Also, the only thing there powerful enough to account for Gandalf not being able to save Thrain.

In Reply To
since I was nearly finished yesterday, I just ran a little low on time.

Now to continue where I left off...

11. What do you think of Thorin's fighting style? Is there anything that stood out for you?

We now learn from Balin (near the end of the flashback sequence) that "there was one that he can follow. There is one he could call King." He's of course referring to Thorin. The rest of the Dwarves seem to have gained a little more respect for Thorin after hearing this tale.

12. What do you think Thorin is thinking and feeling at this particular moment? Does he seem proud that the rest of the Dwarves seem to regard him with more respect after hearing what's he's been through during the Battle of Azanulbizar?

After Balin finishes with the tale, Bilbo asks what had become of the pale orc, and Thorin tells us the he "slunk back into the cave in whence he came, and that that filth died of his wounds long ago" but a look between Balin and Gandalf seem to tell us otherwise.

13. Do you think Gandalf (and Balin) suspect that Azog isn't really dead, and that they think it foolish of Thorin to think this if he didn't actually see him die (he just saw him being dragged into Moria missing an arm by his brethren)?

14. Is there anything else that you wish to discuss that I may have missed (I'm amazed I remembered as much as I did, but I did just view the Extended Edition of AUJ a couple of days ago, so it's still pretty fresh in my mind)?


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Glorfindela
Valinor


Nov 10 2013, 4:06pm

Post #11 of 12 (93 views)
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Remaining answers [In reply to] Can't Post

11. What do you think of Thorin's fighting style? Is there anything that stood out for you?

Magnificent Ė he displays considerable strength in the way he wields the sword or axe. It befits the character.

12. What do you think Thorin is thinking and feeling at this particular moment? Does he seem proud that the rest of the Dwarves seem to regard him with more respect after hearing what's he's been through during the Battle of Azanulbizar?

I don't get the sense that he is feeling particularly 'proud' Ė it seems to me he just acknowledges their respect.

13. Do you think Gandalf (and Balin) suspect that Azog isn't really dead, and that they think it foolish of Thorin to think this if he didn't actually see him die (he just saw him being dragged into Moria missing an arm by his brethren)?

From the look that passes between them, I would say yes.

14. Is there anything else that you wish to discuss that I may have missed (I'm amazed I remembered as much as I did, but I did just view the Extended Edition of AUJ a couple of days ago, so it's still pretty fresh in my mind)?


I loved the moment at the end of the battle, when Thorin rallied the other Dwarves, then ended up in heroic pose (accompanied by Balin's 'There is one that I could call King', etc.).

And I do so like Thorin's hairÖWink


(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Nov 10 2013, 4:14pm)


Silwen_Peredhil
Rivendell


Dec 6 2013, 11:47am

Post #12 of 12 (92 views)
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I'm sorry this is late but I'd really like to comment on this scene [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo feeds Myrtle an apple and tells her not to tell anyone.

I find this moment quite sweet. If the bird house outside Bag End didnít hint at the fact that Bilbo has a soft spot for animals then this moment does. Itís very sweet that he thinks about the animals enough to want to feed his pony a little extra. His friendship will also stem from the fact that Myrtle and the other ponies are from the Shire and are therefore a little part of home and what he has left behind.
I noticed the way he looks around to see if anyone is looking before he feeds Myrtle the apple. I wonder if it is that having a soft spot for animals is not something that will raise Bilboís profile in front of the dwarves and Bilbo knows this. His glancing around is possibly because he feels the dwarves might tease him about it considering the way they teased him at Bag End. Bilbo is probably wary of what he does in front of the other dwarves.
He tells Myrtle not to tell anyone about the apple. A reason for this could be because he has taken an extra apple from their rations, but I am not so sure thatís the case. He fondles Myrtle and says itís their secret in a way a person does when they play with animals, giving them attention and making them feel special. In a way it is their secret since most of the dwarves seem to be asleep.

Fili and Kili talk to Bilbo
I think they were in a way warning Bilbo about what orcs could do. However I think Bilbo is pretty aware from whatever stories he has read about what they are capable of which is shown by his reaction when Kili first tells him what the noise is. I think therefore they were merely winding him up like when friends tell each other scary stories. The scarier the story the cooler a person feels about themselves. It probably makes the two of them feel cool because they are the youngest in the party of dwarves and therefore the least experienced. They take advantage of the fact that Bilbo is even more inexperienced than they are and it makes them sound knowledgeable and experienced. I think they are winding him up, influenced by the fact that they got away with it at Bag End.

Thorinís reaction I think comes from the fact that he doesnít want any nonsense on this quest and perhaps feels displeased that they appear to not be taking this quest seriously enough. The fact that they are his nephews probably means he doesnít want to show them any favouritism and let them get away with that type of attitude especially when he knows they were not being fair to Bilbo. I think in these films Thorin sympathises and looks out for Bilbo despite saying at Bag End to Gandalf that he will not take responsibility for him. It is interesting to take into consideration the fact that both Thorin and Bilbo are apart from the company. Thorin isnít quite part of the company because he is their leader. Bilbo isnít part of the company because he feels he doesnít fit in and the other dwarves are of the same opinion and donít try to encourage him to be. This perhaps actually means that Thorin and Bilbo have something in common. Thorin perhaps, understanding how it feels to not be part of something stands up for Bilbo here.



The moment during the battle where we hear Thorinís battle cry is quite a turning point for Thorin. He has always been beside the leader, but never in the role of a leader. In the film the dwarves lose their King and Thrain in that battle. Thorin has to suddenly in a very difficult situation become a leader since the dwarves are beginning to scatter and the battle is becoming chaos. When Thorin shouts his battle cry I like how the door of Moria is in the background. In a way it symbolises where Thorinís ancestry is from since Durin I was king in Khazad-Dum and how Thorin is now taking up the role of his ancestors and leading his people. The door is symbolic of a new beginning which the other dwarves can find through following Thorin.

The moment when Thorin turns and finds all the dwarves looking at him is reminiscent of the scene at Bag End where Thorin looks around at the dwarves, moved by the fact that they have joined in his song. Here the dwarves are once again drawn together, united by the events of the past. I like the little nod of acknowledgment Thorin gives them before walking amongst them. Itís a very touching moment.

What's this? A Ranger caught off his guard?

 
 

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